***Official Mike Ashley Euro express thread***

[Baggio 0]

Leazes slags Gemmill for saying Souness should have been backed but is allowed to go mental when he perceives Ashley isn't backing Pardew. Not quite sure how that logic works tbh

 

Also fails to acknowledge ANY of the poor seasons towards the end of the previous regime while dismissing our best season in ages as a flash in the pan.

 

Cock

 

so where is the 25m quid left from the sale of Carroll, and what happened to the 14th biggest revenues in football ?

 

Oh howay man LM ffs. We've been through this (I know how you feel now...), but here you go:

 

AC was sold in Jan 11.

 

Since then we have bought (forgetting agent fees for a moment) : HBA £6M Cabaye £4.5M Marv £FREE Obertan £3M Santon £5M Elliot £0.5M Cisse £9M - all give or take a bit.

 

Total £28M

 

Then consider that recently NUFC have paid some of the highest fees to agents, around £6M not including some of the above.

 

But look, its not this simple. It is not as easy as this much came in so that much goes out. It really isnt. What about wages? You sell a player on £50K per week and buy one of £30K per week. Surely the £20K per week has to be accounted somewhere? The same in reverse?

 

Well said, after all you know what they say...

 

[BestBaNone 0]

[Baggio 0]

 

[The Fish 10750]

http://whatculture.com/sport/newcastle-united-10-lessons-for-the-rest-of-the-premier-league.php

 

Newcastle United: 10 Lessons For The Rest of the Premier League

• April 12, 2012 1:37 pm
  

With Newcastle United currently sitting in fifth in the Premier League, equal on points with Tottenham above them, and two clear of Chelsea below, despite the generally held pre-season expectation that the team would struggle having shed the likes of Jose Enrique, Kevin Nolan and Joey Barton, people are beginning to turn more attention to Alan Pardew’s men in the North East. And why not? Newcastle have made a mockery of those expectations, making pundits and fans eat their words in turn, and finding success not only on the pitch, but also on the books with finances looking impressively healthy.

Success invariably courts envy, and while other clubs may look to acquiring Newcastle’s on-field talents as a solution to stealing some of that success, they would do better to replicate the model for growth that the backroom and management teams – including much-maligned owner Mike Ashley and openly hated Managing Director Derek LLambias – brought in to the club following the disaster of relegation at the end of the 2008/09 season.

Because no matter how many rival fans insist Newcastle are trading on luck and the unfair advantage of a few shining star players, they are merely reaping the benefits of a new way of thinking.

1. Invest in the Scouting Network

 

One of the single most important influences on Newcastle’s successes in the past two seasons, and especially in the last twelve months has been Graham Carr – father of Alan, and former footballer – who, as head of Newcastle’s scouting network, has achieved miracles under what has been called ridiculously tight constraints. His work to identify and bring in players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ba, Cisse and young talent Mehdi Abeid (watch this space) has been amazingly successful, especially considering the cumulative outlay required to confirm them as Newcastle players, and there is no doubt that the team might not be anywhere near their current league position without him.

2. Be Frugal

 

Spending masses of money on over-priced stars based on past successes is not the future, no matter how much Man City insist it might be, with even oligarch-backed Chelsea looking at more sensible measures for player recruitment going forward. The joke, of course, was that Newcastle had the only billionaire owner who was unwilling to put his hand in his pocket, but with the books almost balanced, and the club now almost breaking even (bar the interest free owner loan Ashley sanctioned), Ashley’s approach to running his club now looks even more logical.

That frugal approach has had its detractors, with fans, and the sensationalist media grasping with two hands onto the saleability factor, and the fact that every player has a price that makes their continued association with the club the least favourable option. But Ashley has perhaps been misunderstood when it comes to player sales – while he categorically states (through mouth piece Llambias) that no player sales will be ruled out, he is also a self-confessed “difficult seller”, and is not in the market to simply sell for a profit to the detriment of the team and the club. That does mean that big offers can prise star players away from Newcastle, but fans will do well to consider the feelings of dissatisfaction when Carroll, Nolan and Barton left, and what those players have done since leaving, as well as what has come in to replace them. And make no mistake, this Newcastle team is not the finished article, with more players incoming this summer (and some departing no doubt).

3. Take Risks

 

Demba Ba. Hatem Ben Arfa. Sylvain Marveaux. All three have had massive injuries, which could have resulted in major costs to their careers, and yet the first two have shone this season, and the third showed considerable promise before another injury curtailed his own season. All three were bought despite their injuries – in the case of Ben Arfa (as well, in fact as Dan Gosling) while he was still recuperating – and probably against conventionally sound medical advice. It just goes to show, you should never write any player off regardless of injury, or the muddled opinions of medical “experts”.

4. Never Rest on Your Laurels

 

Heading into the January transfer window, to a man Newcastle’s fans could have been forgiven for hoping for nothing but the retention of certain star players – based on Mike Ashley’s apparent policy for selling stars at a profit – as well, perhaps as a centre-half to cover the season-ending injury to Steven Taylor. But, the management team had other ideas, seeing Demba Ba’s impressive goals tally as merely a starting point, and pushing forward with their intention to bring in another striker to compliment Ba, and ease his goal-scoring burden. And even more impressively, in the acquisition of Demba Cisse for £8m (and not the £10m that is roundly suggested by other news outlets), Newcastle managed to find a striker so good that he has taken the lime-light away from his compatriot, and quickly out-done his goal-scoring feats with 10 goals in his first 9 games.

That simple policy of bringing in better players, when available and for the right price, is what under-pins the entire transfer policy at the club, with the summer move for Yohan Cabaye to replace Kevin Nolan making a mockery of those who suggested that the team would falter badly without their free-scoring attacking midfielder this time out. And provided any move into the transfer market is progressive (no matter how criticised – like the acceptance of £35m for Andy Carroll) and to the benefit of the club, it should be welcomed.

5. Plan Meticulously & Adapt

 

A phenomenal amount of work goes in away from the pitch at Newcastle’s training complex to assess and analyse match performances – as with almost every top flight club these days – but what makes Alan Pardew’s team stand out (especially recently) is the team’s ability to adapt to opponent’s based on their own specific strengths and weaknesses. The recent away match at Swansea was a case in point, with Pardew’s men happy to sit back and invite Swansea to pass the ball around harmlessly, while looking for opportunities to counter, and leave their opponents up the pitch helpless. That approach was in stark contrast to the performances against Manchester United at home, where Pardew saw the opportunity to play two strong centre-forwards to pressurise Man Utd’s wobbly central defense, and West Brom, where Newcastle turned the tide on the counter-attacking experts to stunning effect.

6. Lose The Prima-Donnas

 

No player should be allowed to become bigger than their club, and while dressing room strength and unity is a positive thing, a football club should be neither a democracy or a people’s republic. The minute any player begins to question the management, or the direction the club is headed publically, they should be considered a toxic influence and removed.

7. Accomodate “Luxury”

 

Too many lazy commentators this season have referred to Hatem Ben Arfa as a “frustrating” player, who has both the capacity for jaw-dropping brilliance (see Bolton and Blackburn), and to implode, supposedly. Such players are invariably shackled by short-sighted opinions that suggest the team needs to carry the player for 80% of the time, in order to profit from a staggeringly good 20%. While that can be true, the 20% is what matters, and having a magician of a playmaker, who can go past players for fun, unlock defences and chip in with goals both great and standard is monumentally important for any team with aspirations of greatness. And giving a player like Ben Arfa the on-pitch time and space to develop, and adapt his own game to the overall cause of the team can be even more valuable, as Newcastle have found with the Frenchman’s increased workload and willingness to track back.

8. Spend In the Right Areas

 

Though Newcastle have spent very little in real terms in the past two years, thanks to the massive injection of money from Andy Carroll’s sale, the £8m signing of Papiss Cisse was a statement of intent by Ashley and co that given the right player, funds would be available. Strengthening key positions with new signings remains a priority at Newcastle, despite the sensible unwillingness to pay over-inflated prices, and you can’t get much more key than up-front, where a free-scoring striker can mean the difference between mid-table and European contention, or Europa and Champions’ League participation.

9. Strengthen The Core

 

The spine of a team is undeniably the most important area, and strengthening it from goalkeeper right through to the strikers is the best way to guarantee on-field results going your way. Newcastle have proved this season that weaker players can be accomodated in wide areas, while the loss of key core players like Cheick Tiote, Fabricio Coloccini and Demba Ba have a much more visible cost to the team’s fortunes. But while the core remains intact, players of a lower calibre, who would more fairly be considered squad players, like Ryan Taylor, and Danny Simpson, upcoming youngsters like Sammy Ameobi and Shane Ferguson, and developmental talents like Davide Santon and Gabriel Obertan (who need to find their feet a bit more after recent moves) can be accomodated in wider positions.

10. Fear No-one

 

The Premier League is no place for blind respect for your opponents, and if Newcastle’s impressive results against higher placed teams and those who have built a reputation as having stronghold home stadiums has taught anything, it is that fearing noone, and playing your own game, while containing that of the opponent, no matter who they are can lead to some supposedly unexpected results like the 3-0 home win over Manchester United. Swansea have taken a similar no fear approach and as a result have brought an attacking, possession-lead style to the league that has rarely been seen from a newly promoted team.

[Baggio 0]

Arsenal Pts 64 G+24

 

Wigan (h)

Chelsea (h)

Stoke (a)

Norwich (h)

West Brom (a)

 

Spurs Pts 59 G+19

 

QPR (a)

Blackburn (h)

Bolton (a)

Villa (a)

Fulham (h)

 

Newcastle Pts 59 G+8

 

Stoke (h)

Wigan (a)

Chelsea (a)

Man City (h)

Everton (a)

 

Chelsea Pts 57 G+18

 

Arsenal (a)

QPR (h)

Newcastle (h)

Liverpool (a)

Blackburn (h)

Edited April 16, 2012 by Baggio

[Happy Face 29]

Is it me or do those ten contradict each other?

 

Accomodate “Luxury” Vs Lose The Prima-Donnas

 

Be Frugal vs Take Risks

[BestBaNone 0]

We've got a tough, tough run in, but everything just seems to be going our way

[Park Life 71]

It's on. Chelsea are gonna be completely knackered when we play them. Spurs minds must be shot.

[Andrew 4720]

Is it me or do those ten contradict each other?

 

Accomodate “Luxury” Vs Lose The Prima-Donnas

 

Be Frugal vs Take Risks

 

not neccesarily. "luxury" in the ben arfa term does not = prima-donna

 

be frugal vs take risks doesnt either because we're financially frugal doesnt mean we dont take risks

[JawD 99]

 

 

14th Revenue blah - Not sure of the relevance but what happened to it is it declined for ages and naturally being relegated was the biggest impact. Its a no brainer. Being relegated would have a huge impact on TV money. Plus the fans being against the new ownership and not spending as much. All my assumptions of course.

 

Do we have to sell our best players? At the moment I would say in the same we that Man Utd sold their best player (an offer they could not refuse) or that we have always always said, if a players doesnt want to be here, sell him (Enrique). I would be pissed if we sold Tiote for £10M for example but if £25M came in I would have to think long and hard as that could be reinvested (like the AC money has been) to strengthen us further.

 

What about the wages eh. Outgoing (of relevance) Barton, AC, Enrique, Nolan, Campbell, Routledge. I have no idea but lets say £50K each. That is £300Kpw or £15.5M a year.

 

Incoming (of relevance). HBA, Cabaye, Ba, Marv, Obertan, Santon, Cisse using the same £50K is £350Kpw or £18M a year.

 

What sort of club spins this kind of rubbish? I think you'll find Man Utd fans are often pissed at their new ownership and debt that brought. Arsenal as said spend (nett) less than we do? How do you think they manage it? Are they not ambitious?

 

So you think we are the same as Bolton etc. Tell you what LM, I reckon all of those you name would love to be where we are right now. Not bad for a 2nd rate club eh.

 

JawD its a fact that NUFC had the 14th biggest revenues in football. Given the fact that you appear to think that despite this, the club needs to use part of money received from the sale of a player to meet normal operational requirements, does that not mean you think NUFC need to sell to survive ?

 

If you don't, at what stage do you think a club needs to do better than have the 14th biggest revenues in world football so they do not have to do this ?

 

I realise such a logical and obvious train of thought will be too much to comprehend for certain people, like the accountant, his mate the grey man and Fish to name a few.

 

Because Turnover means nothing. Turnover just tells you how much income the business has.

 

Think of it another way. Business A has a turnover of £100M and bloke B has a Turnover of £50M. Who is better off? You dont know do you. Business A generates a higher level of income, but to generate that income might cost £99M while Business B might cost £25M to generate theirs. therefore Business B is the better model (teaching to suck eggs here Im sure). But my point is that the 14th biggest revenue is/was not all that relevant. Some figures for you.

 

04/05 - 12th on 128M

05/06 - 13th on 124M

06/07 - 14th on 129M

07/08 - 17th on 125M

08/09 - 20th on 101M

09/10 - not in top 20 but <£81M - Not surprising given relegation?

10/11 - TBC but I would expect a large increase over 09/10

 

But this point about the 14th largest revenue, tbh I dont really get your point being made? Yes, I know the income has dropped and that is no surprise given the reasons said. But previously we were not profitable, we loaned the money.

 

Simply, to answer your question. do we need to sell to survive? No.

Do we need to sell to cover operational costs? No.

Do we need to sell to buy new players? Yes and No. If we can sell a player for large profit, profit that would take a long time to generate through normal trading (on shirt sales etc) then this is a quicker way to have the funds to reinvest.

 

My turn. Dont twist it or change it. No ifs but maybes. Just a simple 1) or 2).

 

Which scenario would you prefer :

 

1) Sell no players (other than those not getting a game) and invest £10M in squad for two new players (assuming 2 at £5M each or One and a free)

2) Sell one big player for £20M (not including those not getting a game) and invest £25M in Four new players (Assuming £5M each still or One £10M, Two £5M one free etc)

 

Baring in mind we need to strengthen our squad depth, more so in Europe.

 

Bump incase LM missed my little question at the end.

[ChezGiven 0]

In fairness, from Carroll leaving, until the end of the season, we dropped from 9th, being 2 points above 13th, to finishing 12th, 2 points below 9th. Hardly a massive shift compared to where we are now having had time to able to spend (some of) the Carroll money and improve the team.

 

I'm just yanking CG's chain.

 

He likes to have a dig, lump me in with Leazes because I respect the views of someone with decades of match-going experience and defend the bloke when people put words in his mouth.

 

Fact is though, the only 'narrative' I've ever had is that Ashley is a liar and I wouldn't trust him as far as his belly reaches over his belt. That won't change no matter what. If we win the champions league I still wouldn't have time for the twat.

 

No idea why CG thinks I'd be bitter. I was the one telling the likes of uber positive CT his hopes were too modest after promotion. He's running around demanding plaudits for his positive outlook when not too long ago he was saying to me...

 

How on earth do you think its realistic to aim for seventh spot and dislodge Villa or Liverpool

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/27275-back-to-the-future/page__view__findpost__p__731210

 

I'm fully vindicated truth be told.

 

 

I respected and agreed with Leazes when he said the previous board were a great board who took this club from the depths of the old second division to the champions league. What was your point of view of the old board in 2007? Nice that you have to wheel out a quote from CT whilst trying to make a point to me. Whats all that about?

 

I was convinced that Carroll would stay because I had no idea that anyone was willing to spend £35m on him. The figure gets bandied around willy nilly nowadays but go back 2 weeks before that sale and no one would have taken a bet on him going for that money. In fact no one was willing to bet he would be sold. The conviction was not about Carroll or about Ashley not being prepared to sell players, it was about a noticeable and serious shift in the club's strategy, a belief based on observing the financial investment during the relegation season and all business logic pointing towards pushing the club forward as the most sensible business decision. That conviction from 2010 has been completely borne out. The narrative didn't change because it wasn't a political position, it was based on pure analysis. Carrying a wage bill that equalled revenue in the championship cost Ashley a cool £25m which he had to lend the club, he did this at no interest. I never blew smoke up his ass for doing so, merely gave you the most logical interpretation of the motIves behind these actions. Because I never strayed from the hard nosed analysis, I never got distracted from its implications.

 

The recent history of the club is a straightforward case study of social psychology and politics, each event presented and interpreted through the prism of a dominating narrative. If you forget all that shite the only rational thing to conclude was that he wants the club to be as successful as it can within the constraints of it's income. All owners are the same, whats been important is appointing the right manager, which he did and getting the right people in to do the rest of the work. Luck? Design? To be honest in any business it's difficult to really tell the difference at the end of the day, all you know are decisions made and how well they turned out.

[ChezGiven 0]

Actually tbf, I was also convinced Carroll would stay because he was a Geordie too. I just couldn't see him wanting to leave but I was wrong about that of course.

 

 

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

I predicted Dalglish would pay an extortianate fee for Carroll after it became widely known that he breaks squad member's jaws during training, throws glasses at people in clubs, and is physically abusive towards women. THE KING has always been willing to pay a premium for these types of characters. Suarez went straight to the top of the targets list after he chewed the flesh of an opposition player during a game. When he engaged in a brief stint of Aussie Rules during the world cup, no fee was too great for this great bastion of moral fibre. He hasn't let THE KING down.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

JawD its a fact that NUFC had the 14th biggest revenues in football. Given the fact that you appear to think that despite this, the club needs to use part of money received from the sale of a player to meet normal operational requirements, does that not mean you think NUFC need to sell to survive ?

 

If you don't, at what stage do you think a club needs to do better than have the 14th biggest revenues in world football so they do not have to do this ?

 

I realise such a logical and obvious train of thought will be too much to comprehend for certain people, like the accountant, his mate the grey man and Fish to name a few.

 

Because Turnover means nothing. Turnover just tells you how much income the business has.

 

Think of it another way. Business A has a turnover of £100M and bloke B has a Turnover of £50M. Who is better off? You dont know do you. Business A generates a higher level of income, but to generate that income might cost £99M while Business B might cost £25M to generate theirs. therefore Business B is the better model (teaching to suck eggs here Im sure). But my point is that the 14th biggest revenue is/was not all that relevant. Some figures for you.

 

04/05 - 12th on 128M

05/06 - 13th on 124M

06/07 - 14th on 129M

07/08 - 17th on 125M

08/09 - 20th on 101M

09/10 - not in top 20 but <£81M - Not surprising given relegation?

10/11 - TBC but I would expect a large increase over 09/10

 

But this point about the 14th largest revenue, tbh I dont really get your point being made? Yes, I know the income has dropped and that is no surprise given the reasons said. But previously we were not profitable, we loaned the money.

 

Simply, to answer your question. do we need to sell to survive? No.

Do we need to sell to cover operational costs? No.

Do we need to sell to buy new players? Yes and No. If we can sell a player for large profit, profit that would take a long time to generate through normal trading (on shirt sales etc) then this is a quicker way to have the funds to reinvest.

 

My turn. Dont twist it or change it. No ifs but maybes. Just a simple 1) or 2).

 

Which scenario would you prefer :

 

1) Sell no players (other than those not getting a game) and invest £10M in squad for two new players (assuming 2 at £5M each or One and a free)

2) Sell one big player for £20M (not including those not getting a game) and invest £25M in Four new players (Assuming £5M each still or One £10M, Two £5M one free etc)

 

Baring in mind we need to strengthen our squad depth, more so in Europe.

 

Bump incase LM missed my little question at the end.

 

where did you get those figures ?

 

I'm not talking any figures. I'm saying put 2 (or even better, 3) players straight into that team that the manager thinks will improve it without selling any major player ?

 

What is complicated about that ?

 

I'll answer the rest tomorrow.

[McFaul 35]

I'm not arselickin CT cos he can still be a mug, even though he's clearly just a canny bloke. He must look at what's happened like fuckin LM would dee if we were in the Conference but being docked 90 points. I want to say something bad about Ashley but I'm part of the #ashleyamnesty

[McFaul 35]

[Christmas Tree 4702]

In fairness, from Carroll leaving, until the end of the season, we dropped from 9th, being 2 points above 13th, to finishing 12th, 2 points below 9th. Hardly a massive shift compared to where we are now having had time to able to spend (some of) the Carroll money and improve the team.

 

I'm just yanking CG's chain.

 

He likes to have a dig, lump me in with Leazes because I respect the views of someone with decades of match-going experience and defend the bloke when people put words in his mouth.

 

Fact is though, the only 'narrative' I've ever had is that Ashley is a liar and I wouldn't trust him as far as his belly reaches over his belt. That won't change no matter what. If we win the champions league I still wouldn't have time for the twat.

 

No idea why CG thinks I'd be bitter. I was the one telling the likes of uber positive CT his hopes were too modest after promotion. He's running around demanding plaudits for his positive outlook when not too long ago he was saying to me...

 

How on earth do you think its realistic to aim for seventh spot and dislodge Villa or Liverpool

 

http://www.toontasti...post__p__731210

 

I'm fully vindicated truth be told.

 

 

I like the way you do quotes..... You cut off the bit on the end that says..... "in our first season back"!

 

I am the last person fussed about running around looking for plaudits. All that stuff the other day was just a laugh at the past to me.

 

Some people (not you) get so entrenched its unhealthy.

 

The only thing that matters to me is "feel and enjoyment".

 

Do I feel "positive" about the Team, The Finances, The Manager, The Young'uns coming through, and the general direction the club is travelling in. I do

 

Do I enjoy going to games, watching on the TV, reading about us etc I do.

 

All this harping back to old boards is bollocks and can be summed up in a few lines.

 

Did the last board show us some very good times? Yes

Do most agree its harder to break into the four now than it used to be? Yes

Did the last board fail to build on our successful years in the way Man U and Arsenal have? Yes

Had that ship sailed long before Ashley got here? Yes

 

We all pretty much agree on Ashleys mistakes as well, however Im sure most agree that the way he has gone about turning us around on and off the pitch is putting in place solid foundations that hopefully will do us well for many years to come.

 

Might not be enough to win the league but its looking like Top four challenges are back again, to everyones amazement.

 

All this Leazes "I was right" carry on is giving this place a daily dose of unpleasantness which is a shame as its pretty clear even without a Happy Face chart that the Trend on here is downwards.

 

Theres plenty of stuff to have good healthy debates about without all this carry on every day.

 

Time for some sensible self control or more likely, sensible moderation.

[Christmas Tree 4702]

I'm not arselickin CT cos he can still be a mug, even though he's clearly just a canny bloke. He must look at what's happened like fuckin LM would dee if we were in the Conference but being docked 90 points. I want to say something bad about Ashley but I'm part of the #ashleyamnesty

 

 

Honestly, being right or wrong on the internet £0.50p

 

Watching a three pronged attack of Cisse, Ba and Ben Arfa....... Fucking priceless!

[Happy Face 29]

Spot on CT, athough you feel 'positive' wherever we are in the league, whoever we've sacked or sold

 

I wasn't responding to a Leazes "I was right post" though, I responded to a Chez "HF was wrong" one. Fair game IYAM.

[Christmas Tree 4702]

Spot on CT, athough you feel 'positive' wherever we are in the league, whoever we've sacked or sold

 

I wasn't responding to a Leazes "I was right post" though, I responded to a Chez "HF was wrong" one. Fair game IYAM.

 

Aye, I know. Just an early morning hungover out pouring.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

I'm just yanking CG's chain.

 

He likes to have a dig, lump me in with Leazes because I respect the views of someone with decades of match-going experience and defend the bloke when people put words in his mouth.

 

Fact is though, the only 'narrative' I've ever had is that Ashley is a liar and I wouldn't trust him as far as his belly reaches over his belt. That won't change no matter what. If we win the champions league I still wouldn't have time for the twat.

 

No idea why CG thinks I'd be bitter. I was the one telling the likes of uber positive CT his hopes were too modest after promotion. He's running around demanding plaudits for his positive outlook when not too long ago he was saying to me...

 

How on earth do you think its realistic to aim for seventh spot and dislodge Villa or Liverpool

 

http://www.toontasti...post__p__731210

 

I'm fully vindicated truth be told.

 

 

I like the way you do quotes..... You cut off the bit on the end that says..... "in our first season back"!

 

I am the last person fussed about running around looking for plaudits. All that stuff the other day was just a laugh at the past to me.

 

Some people (not you) get so entrenched its unhealthy.

 

The only thing that matters to me is "feel and enjoyment".

 

Do I feel "positive" about the Team, The Finances, The Manager, The Young'uns coming through, and the general direction the club is travelling in. I do

 

Do I enjoy going to games, watching on the TV, reading about us etc I do.

 

All this harping back to old boards is bollocks and can be summed up in a few lines.

 

Did the last board show us some very good times? Yes

Do most agree its harder to break into the four now than it used to be? Yes

Did the last board fail to build on our successful years in the way Man U and Arsenal have? Yes

Had that ship sailed long before Ashley got here? Yes

 

We all pretty much agree on Ashleys mistakes as well, however Im sure most agree that the way he has gone about turning us around on and off the pitch is putting in place solid foundations that hopefully will do us well for many years to come.

 

Might not be enough to win the league but its looking like Top four challenges are back again, to everyones amazement.

 

All this Leazes "I was right" carry on is giving this place a daily dose of unpleasantness which is a shame as its pretty clear even without a Happy Face chart that the Trend on here is downwards.

 

Theres plenty of stuff to have good healthy debates about without all this carry on every day.

 

Time for some sensible self control or more likely, sensible moderation.

 

starting with posters calling others "madman" when replying to post not even directed at them perhaps ?

 

Or people disagreeing with ME, its so annoying when someone disagrees with you, isn't it ?

 

It's a shame people can't be honest mind, I agree with you. I've posted in agreement that maybe things should be toned down for the sake of the board, but it seems a few people just don't want to do it.

[Happy Face 29]

I respected and agreed with Leazes when he said the previous board were a great board who took this club from the depths of the old second division to the champions league. What was your point of view of the old board in 2007? Nice that you have to wheel out a quote from CT whilst trying to make a point to me. Whats all that about?

 

I was convinced that Carroll would stay because I had no idea that anyone was willing to spend £35m on him. The figure gets bandied around willy nilly nowadays but go back 2 weeks before that sale and no one would have taken a bet on him going for that money. In fact no one was willing to bet he would be sold. The conviction was not about Carroll or about Ashley not being prepared to sell players, it was about a noticeable and serious shift in the club's strategy, a belief based on observing the financial investment during the relegation season and all business logic pointing towards pushing the club forward as the most sensible business decision. That conviction from 2010 has been completely borne out. The narrative didn't change because it wasn't a political position, it was based on pure analysis. Carrying a wage bill that equalled revenue in the championship cost Ashley a cool £25m which he had to lend the club, he did this at no interest. I never blew smoke up his ass for doing so, merely gave you the most logical interpretation of the motIves behind these actions. Because I never strayed from the hard nosed analysis, I never got distracted from its implications.

 

The recent history of the club is a straightforward case study of social psychology and politics, each event presented and interpreted through the prism of a dominating narrative. If you forget all that shite the only rational thing to conclude was that he wants the club to be as successful as it can within the constraints of it's income. All owners are the same, whats been important is appointing the right manager, which he did and getting the right people in to do the rest of the work. Luck? Design? To be honest in any business it's difficult to really tell the difference at the end of the day, all you know are decisions made and how well they turned out.

 

 

I think you also said the old board were leading us to financial ruin, which Leazes won't have. I also agree (then and now) they were a great board who took this club from the depths of the old second division to the champions league. That's not mutually exclusive from the financial view we share and disagree with Leazes on though.

 

I quoted CT to show my view rather than yours.

 

It's really a shame the forum was (is?) so polarised by all the team positive/team negative nonsense and everyone has been grouped so simplisticly.

 

For better or worse I'm now tarred as banging the drum for "team negative". I won't deny my utter contempt for Ashley, my blog, my twitter (all vehemently opposed him), and as one of the most frequent posters on here, it's been clear. I don't think any of it makes me particularly negative about the possibilities at NUFC on the football side though. I have expressed doubts about the owners intent on that score, currently I look daftest for my fear that we were being set up like West Brom. The yoyo club theory I espoused being predicated on a view that he would try to recoup his loans above bringing in quality players. The paltry £5m or so spent following promotion did nothing to allay this fear, and then the sale of Carroll only worried me further. All the while you (correctly) argued he wouldn't let it come to that, despite those flies in the ointment.

 

Going on that "Back to the future" thread though, these genuine concerns were not based on anything I didn't believe was totally avoidable. I always said that it would be easy to maintain a club of our size in the top half if he would just have a go....

 

Spend £20m on one or two players. Aim for the top half. Simples.

 

Nothing negative in that. I was saying

 

Aim for 7th

 

Deanoesque tbh. I didn't think Ashley would actually try it though so predicted 12th. He didn't and that's where we finished.

 

This season I said we wouldn't beat that, this was after selling Nolan and before we brought in some additional bodies. Even after an incredible start though I still wasn't at all convinced, thinking we'd fall away because he just hadn't provided the squad depth it needed...you can see below my ava on the left when I was turned around on that score. Though I still lamented (and lament) that we didn't get the defender we were crying out for (would we have dropped points to Arsenal and Wolves?)

 

We didn't go for it in year one, we spent a few million, finished bottom half and sacked another manager. We spent £15m in the summer, got excellent value for it, added another £8m in winter, exceeding the £20m suggested, and we've not looked back. I've barely had a bad word for Ashley since he's done that either.

 

You had also hoped for more investment that first year back yourself...

 

How much money we expect the club to invest over the summer. I reckon 15 -20m.

 

how much he could have spent - i reckon he could spend 30m if he gambles a bit.

 

what would we need to spend over the summer to have a realistic chance of Europe? 60m for me.

 

Do we have 60m to spend? No.

 

...but have always been willing to give the owner the benefit of the doubt in his slow build approach, whenever he has disappointed you. I don't think he had earned that. He has now.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Happy Face

[manc-mag 1]

Some fair points there from team negatives most prominent bully, if I can avoid using polarising labels for one moment.

[Park Life 71]

At least that's put a stop to Chez constant re-writing of history a la Pol Pot (year 0).

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Well barring a disaster of epic proportions we will be playing in Europe, which competition is yet to be decided but if the Spurs collapse continues and Arsenal beat Chelsea its in our hands. Who would have thought that at the beginning of the campaign?

 

We have one of the best attacks in the league and in Tiote and Cabaye one of the best midfield partnerships, oh and not to mention the best Keeper too. If we get champions league I would like to think it will be an incentive for our best players to stay although no one(with maybe a few exceptions) can doubt if City or another club with untold riches come knocking with 20,30 mil offers and 150 grand a week contracts are offered then heads will get turned, that's a fact which doesn't make us a selling club or on the same scale as Bolton or West Brom.

 

I hope the team stays together and we add some more quality and continue to push on, its hard to believe this is only the second season back in the premiership and I think Pardew is doing a great job and even Ashley has to be given some credit. I hope he's got some passion back and this season has proven we can compete even with modest investment in the RIGHT players.