LeazesMag 0 Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 When he had the ball Vuckic was champion.....but we didn't dominate the middle of the park at all. Just couldn't hold onto the ball. And while everyone agrees Tiote had a bad game, he had well over double the succesful passes that Vuckic did, and we seemed to go to him as default. I'm not saying Vuckic went missing as badly as Obertan, or that I expect much more from a young debutant.....but he was a weak link we struggled to live with. Hope he can start to demand more of the ball if he gets another chance. stats-wise, that may be right, but Tiote was playing simple balls, whereas Vuckic was up supporting the front two far more, and attempting things, including shots at goal. Not knocking Tiote [who IMO seems to have his mind on other things now unfortunately, as I expected him to play better in what was his 2nd game back] at all, but Vuckic is a more attacking player, than both Tiote and Cabaye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6170 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I haven't been impressed with Tiote all season. I said it 2 months ago and got shouted down. Holds on to the ball too long, nailed on for a yellow every 2 games, about as creative as my arsehole. Was honestly more impressed with Guthrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 When he had the ball Vuckic was champion.....but we didn't dominate the middle of the park at all. Just couldn't hold onto the ball. And while everyone agrees Tiote had a bad game, he had well over double the succesful passes that Vuckic did, and we seemed to go to him as default. I'm not saying Vuckic went missing as badly as Obertan, or that I expect much more from a young debutant.....but he was a weak link we struggled to live with. Hope he can start to demand more of the ball if he gets another chance. stats-wise, that may be right, but Tiote was playing simple balls, whereas Vuckic was up supporting the front two far more, and attempting things, including shots at goal. Not knocking Tiote [who IMO seems to have his mind on other things now unfortunately, as I expected him to play better in what was his 2nd game back] at all, but Vuckic is a more attacking player, than both Tiote and Cabaye. Agreed, I'd always expect Tiote to receive and give the ball out of defense more...but Vuckic looked like he could handle himself when he did get it and just wasn't used as an option as much. Might be fairer, more informative comparing him with Cabaye against swansea.... Cabaye 45/65 pass completion Vuckic 28/35 pass completion So he's got a better success rate than Cabaye (who's been remarkable) when he gets the ball, just not getting enough of it for my liking last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 5178 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Vuckic is a physical presence and won a hell of a lot in the air. He'd work very good in 4-3-3 formation as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Are we suddenly comparing a Vuckic with a Tiote now?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 No, we're discussing why it is that we didn't control the midfield as effectively as we have in other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@yourservice 67 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Vuckic isn't afraid to have a pop at goal and I can see him scoring more than Cabaye or Tiote, giving a run in the team. It's nee good relying on the Ba for goals, we need a scoring midfielder. NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Edited December 22, 2011 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 5178 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. He said Demba Ba was shit after watching him for 45 minutes as well (against Arsenal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I haven't been impressed with Tiote all season. I said it 2 months ago and got shouted down. You're a true visionary, you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7222 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Whilst I don't think he's shit, he most certainly isn't as "great" as some make him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Whilst I don't think he's shit, he most certainly isn't as "great" as some make him out. He's by no means shit. He's great at what he does and it's highly important (harrying opponents/breaking down play-we've scarecely ever had that), it's just he's a 'shit' footballer. ie he's not very good with the ball. His pass completion is always good because they're short lay offs once he's gained possession so that stat itself is largely meaningless. It's totally different to trying to make incisive defence splitting passes into space for your forwards to read. This is why for me if he does go we can't have the mentality it's some sort of irreplaceable loss. The function he performs is what has been shown to be so important to the team and so it's an exercise in making sure we've always got someone/our eye on someone who can perform the same basic role. He's not a natural footballer so that shouldn't be such a mammoth task, he just carries out a highly important defensive function. If he had an attacking side to his game it would be nigh on impossible to replace him (he'd be the 'complete' footballer) but he doesn't. Far from it in fact, for me he could train all week without a ball and probably be quite happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Good Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donaldstott 0 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) Agree with what Mancy says. I'd argue that as an alternative you could just ask two box to box midfielders to sit a little deeper. I suspect that Cabaye played deeper with Guthrie than with Tiote, to compensate for the fact that neither of them are great at the dirty work that Tiote clearly has a talent for. Edited December 22, 2011 by donaldstott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Whilst I don't think he's shit, he most certainly isn't as "great" as some make him out. He's by no means shit. He's great at what he does and it's highly important (harrying opponents/breaking down play-we've scarecely ever had that), it's just he's a 'shit' footballer. ie he's not very good with the ball. His pass completion is always good because they're short lay offs once he's gained possession so that stat itself is largely meaningless. It's totally different to trying to make incisive defence splitting passes into space for your forwards to read. This is why for me if he does go we can't have the mentality it's some sort of irreplaceable loss. The function he performs is what has been shown to be so important to the team and so it's an exercise in making sure we've always got someone/our eye on someone who can perform the same basic role. He's not a natural footballer so that shouldn't be such a mammoth task, he just carries out a highly important defensive function. If he had an attacking side to his game it would be nigh on impossible to replace him (he'd be the 'complete' footballer) but he doesn't. Far from it in fact, for me he could train all week without a ball and probably be quite happy. Good post, but I think he showed last season that he's rather good with the ball as well. Yeah of course he has to keep it simple but he was Mr 100% last season, seldom gave the ball away. This season he's been a bit sloppy, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7222 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Whilst I don't think he's shit, he most certainly isn't as "great" as some make him out. He's by no means shit. He's great at what he does and it's highly important (harrying opponents/breaking down play-we've scarecely ever had that), it's just he's a 'shit' footballer. ie he's not very good with the ball. His pass completion is always good because they're short lay offs once he's gained possession so that stat itself is largely meaningless. It's totally different to trying to make incisive defence splitting passes into space for your forwards to read. This is why for me if he does go we can't have the mentality it's some sort of irreplaceable loss. The function he performs is what has been shown to be so important to the team and so it's an exercise in making sure we've always got someone/our eye on someone who can perform the same basic role. He's not a natural footballer so that shouldn't be such a mammoth task, he just carries out a highly important defensive function. If he had an attacking side to his game it would be nigh on impossible to replace him (he'd be the 'complete' footballer) but he doesn't. Far from it in fact, for me he could train all week without a ball and probably be quite happy. Good post, but I think he showed last season that he's rather good with the ball as well. Yeah of course he has to keep it simple but he was Mr 100% last season, seldom gave the ball away. This season he's been a bit sloppy, unfortunately. Even last season, when he was playing "great" in general terms, he still had way too much of that in him IMO IF he could minimise/eliminate that part of his game (as much as anyone can in a contested environment) he would be a significantly better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Whilst I don't think he's shit, he most certainly isn't as "great" as some make him out. He's by no means shit. He's great at what he does and it's highly important (harrying opponents/breaking down play-we've scarecely ever had that), it's just he's a 'shit' footballer. ie he's not very good with the ball. His pass completion is always good because they're short lay offs once he's gained possession so that stat itself is largely meaningless. It's totally different to trying to make incisive defence splitting passes into space for your forwards to read. This is why for me if he does go we can't have the mentality it's some sort of irreplaceable loss. The function he performs is what has been shown to be so important to the team and so it's an exercise in making sure we've always got someone/our eye on someone who can perform the same basic role. He's not a natural footballer so that shouldn't be such a mammoth task, he just carries out a highly important defensive function. If he had an attacking side to his game it would be nigh on impossible to replace him (he'd be the 'complete' footballer) but he doesn't. Far from it in fact, for me he could train all week without a ball and probably be quite happy. Good post, but I think he showed last season that he's rather good with the ball as well. Yeah of course he has to keep it simple but he was Mr 100% last season, seldom gave the ball away. This season he's been a bit sloppy, unfortunately. Even last season, when he was playing "great" in general terms, he still had way too much of that in him IMO IF he could minimise/eliminate that part of his game (as much as anyone can in a contested environment) he would be a significantly better player. Of course. But as manc-mag says, if he would be a wiz with the ball he would be the complete midfielder. For a defensive midfielder, I think he's good with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Has Tiote set some kind of record in terms of yellow/red cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 only got 3 yella's this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Maybe when he was 'stuck' in Ghana during pre-season he hired a witch-doctor to control the refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7222 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Whilst I don't think he's shit, he most certainly isn't as "great" as some make him out. He's by no means shit. He's great at what he does and it's highly important (harrying opponents/breaking down play-we've scarecely ever had that), it's just he's a 'shit' footballer. ie he's not very good with the ball. His pass completion is always good because they're short lay offs once he's gained possession so that stat itself is largely meaningless. It's totally different to trying to make incisive defence splitting passes into space for your forwards to read. This is why for me if he does go we can't have the mentality it's some sort of irreplaceable loss. The function he performs is what has been shown to be so important to the team and so it's an exercise in making sure we've always got someone/our eye on someone who can perform the same basic role. He's not a natural footballer so that shouldn't be such a mammoth task, he just carries out a highly important defensive function. If he had an attacking side to his game it would be nigh on impossible to replace him (he'd be the 'complete' footballer) but he doesn't. Far from it in fact, for me he could train all week without a ball and probably be quite happy. Good post, but I think he showed last season that he's rather good with the ball as well. Yeah of course he has to keep it simple but he was Mr 100% last season, seldom gave the ball away. This season he's been a bit sloppy, unfortunately. Even last season, when he was playing "great" in general terms, he still had way too much of that in him IMO IF he could minimise/eliminate that part of his game (as much as anyone can in a contested environment) he would be a significantly better player. Of course. But as manc-mag says, if he would be a wiz with the ball he would be the complete midfielder. For a defensive midfielder, I think he's good with the ball. For the player he is, as he shows at times, it drives me nuts when he loses the ball, usually when doing something simple. He has enough about his game to be much better at what he does "as a package", that's my only crtiticism of him. Better ball retention, which based on the standard of much of the rest of his game shouldn't be difficult for him. He would need to learn how to shoot (or long raking pass) consistently to elevate himself to "complete midfielder" status IMO. Keeping the ball is key to being a good DM. Edit. I'm not saying he is a bad player, it's just he could and should be even better. Edited December 22, 2011 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Pretty amazing that he went for that left-footed volley vs Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He's had a bad game so he's SHIT! Who? Cheik! Think it's only J69 thinks he's shit....and has done for a while. Whilst I don't think he's shit, he most certainly isn't as "great" as some make him out. He's by no means shit. He's great at what he does and it's highly important (harrying opponents/breaking down play-we've scarecely ever had that), it's just he's a 'shit' footballer. ie he's not very good with the ball. His pass completion is always good because they're short lay offs once he's gained possession so that stat itself is largely meaningless. It's totally different to trying to make incisive defence splitting passes into space for your forwards to read. This is why for me if he does go we can't have the mentality it's some sort of irreplaceable loss. The function he performs is what has been shown to be so important to the team and so it's an exercise in making sure we've always got someone/our eye on someone who can perform the same basic role. He's not a natural footballer so that shouldn't be such a mammoth task, he just carries out a highly important defensive function. If he had an attacking side to his game it would be nigh on impossible to replace him (he'd be the 'complete' footballer) but he doesn't. Far from it in fact, for me he could train all week without a ball and probably be quite happy. Good post, but I think he showed last season that he's rather good with the ball as well. Yeah of course he has to keep it simple but he was Mr 100% last season, seldom gave the ball away. This season he's been a bit sloppy, unfortunately. Even last season, when he was playing "great" in general terms, he still had way too much of that in him IMO IF he could minimise/eliminate that part of his game (as much as anyone can in a contested environment) he would be a significantly better player. Of course. But as manc-mag says, if he would be a wiz with the ball he would be the complete midfielder. For a defensive midfielder, I think he's good with the ball. For the player he is, as he shows at times, it drives me nuts when he loses the ball, usually when doing something simple. He has enough about his game to be much better at what he does "as a package", that's my only crtiticism of him. Better ball retention, which based on the standard of much of the rest of his game shouldn't be difficult for him. He would need to learn how to shoot (or long raking pass) consistently to elevate himself to "complete midfielder" status IMO. Keeping the ball is key to being a good DM. Edit. I'm not saying he is a bad player, it's just he could and should be even better. I agree with the bit in bold, but I think it's important to point out that a DM should be doing this by keeping things simple, not by showing off good technique. You don't use the most naturally gifted players as pure defensive midfielders, for this very reason. My point is this: Tiote has been losing the ball far too often this season, but that doesn't mean he isn't good enough with the ball. It has to do with him making incorrect decisions and trying to do too much, ie not keeping it simple, as I think he did last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7222 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I agree with the bit in bold, but I think it's important to point out that a DM should be doing this by keeping things simple, not by showing off good technique. You don't use the most naturally gifted players as pure defensive midfielders, for this very reason. My point is this: Tiote has been losing the ball far too often this season, but that doesn't mean he isn't good enough with the ball. It has to do with him making incorrect decisions and trying to do too much, ie not keeping it simple, as I think he did last season. I don't disagree at all with what you're saying, but he loses the ball (this season and last to an extent) way too much for a player of his undoubted ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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