Politics

[Alex 38126]

You maybe could do something but the only outcome of any note would be a (probably lengthy) custodial sentence. Because the social media, peaceful protest route and so on is just screaming into the void. I’m completely checking out for the most part. It doesn’t make be feel particularly proud of myself but what are you going to do? And by that I mean subjecting yourself to the (frankly horrific) reality is just bad for you. The holier than thou social commentators constantly banging on about are basically just making a living off it too. What actual fucking good do they do for anyone except themselves? 

[Rayvin 6604]

Agree with all of that. I suppose I have just internalised this sense of 'if I'm not going to do anything about it, I have to force myself to watch' so that it's burned onto my soul in some form. Fucking Catholic upbringing.

 

You're right though, and I don't go looking for the stuff, but I suppose the algorithms feed it now.

[wykikitoon 24090]

[Gemmill 53346]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/thank-god-for-immigrants?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1833442&post_id=163585204&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=172gw&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

 

Really good. 

[wykikitoon 24090]

24 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/thank-god-for-immigrants?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1833442&post_id=163585204&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=172gw&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

 

Really good. 

 

Agreed

 

Quote

What exactly is it that we want from them? To be low skilled or high skilled? To be rich or poor, controlling or marginalised? To take jobs or not to take them? To become part of our culture or stay out of it? No-one can say. No-one knows. There is no clarity in the resentment against them, just a nebulous sense of entitlement and thwarted ambition. Villagers seeking a scapegoat in the dark, without torches to light their way

 

This paragraph especially. 

[wykikitoon 24090]

My sister in law was born here.  Her father is an Iraqi and her mother is from Ireland.  She has family in their native countries.  Yet she is quite vocal on immigration and how she is against a lot of it.

Oh and she works in the NHS.

Mental.

[Rayvin 6604]

I do think that's a good article indeed - and I think it's part of this overall problem in the debate around this. That article represents the spirit of what Labour should be saying in this debate. Sure, bring the numbers down, close these fake schools which people are using to take advantage of the system, fine - but even as you do so, approach it while adhering to the spirit of this article. People urgently need to understand the other side of this debate and there is absolutely no voice for it. That article speaks to just a subjective appreciation for the most part and doesn't directly look at the fundamental economic truths around our need of these people, but those realities are also relevant. 

 

As with Brexit, a huge number of people in this country simply refuse to believe or accept any of the downsides or negatives around their opinions on these issues, we are dangerously poorly informed as voters - and in fairness to Reform, that's not their fault. They're a single issue pressure group masquerading as a political party, we should not be expecting them to come out with the arguments against their single issue. We should however be expecting Labour to do so, in the spirit of that article, with additional facts, figures and evidence. To do this though, it would involve Labour also being able to point the finger at other aspects of society that are instead causing the problems we are struggling with (Brexit, private landlords, Brexit, a complete lack of government willingness to build new homes at anything like an appropriate rate, Brexit). They are simply not prepared to have these conversations, and as such have nothing to offer in place of holding up immigrants as the scapegoat.

 

I was stunned to read that letter Starmer penned a few years ago which the Tories were holding up as evidence of his insincerity around the issue, specifically because it would be unthinkable for him to say anything like that now. But I went back and looked at opinions on immigration 2022 and the UK was 70% in favour. We're now at 52% against. Part of that flip is Reform, but a big part of it is also Labour's complete surrender and retreat.

[spongebob toonpants 4582]

Starmer actually wrote the words  "immigration has caused incalculable damage"

 

I have nothing  to add but sinking depression

[Howmanheyman 38372]

 

 

 

[Gemmill 53346]

Jesus Christ is that real? I feel like someone's gonna Scooby Doo pull the mask off him and it'll be Farage's yellow toothy smile beaming back at us. 

[Holden McGroin 8157]

That can’t be real? 
 

Although I’m surprised GB News don’t love him to be honest. He is just as right wing as the previous gov.

[Alex 38126]

The bloke’s a fucking disgrace. At this point I’m not voting for them again as long as he’s leader. 

[Dazzler 12839]

Fucking knew I should have voted for Ed Davey and his actual policies on social care reform all the while seeming like a half decent bloke and having a great time on water slides while this cunt was telling us nowt and arguing with Sunak.

[Rayvin 6604]

Hard to see him staying leader like this tbh.

 

Can I ask, for those of us old enough to remember New Labour in the 90s, was it like this?

[Howmanheyman 38372]

12 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Hard to see him staying leader like this tbh.

 

Can I ask, for those of us old enough to remember New Labour in the 90s, was it like this?

 

I'd say absolutely not but I'm sure there's others on here who were paying more attention.

[Holden McGroin 8157]

It's  like the new-Kamala Harris going into a MAGA heart land and asking for support. Fucking pointless..

 

The bloke needs to fire his advisors, grow a backbone and change his policies. He is just about cooked.

[Dr Gloom 24467]

23 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Hard to see him staying leader like this tbh.

 

Can I ask, for those of us old enough to remember New Labour in the 90s, was it like this?

 

new labour was much, much more progressive. 

[Alex 38126]

Blair was a much better communicator too. 

[The Fish 11500]

Music was better too.

[PaddockLad 19947]

Blair came in circumstances that will never  be repeated again ie pre internet. The country was also in recovery from Thatcher and the recession of the early 90s. He stuck to the fiscal plans of the outgoing Tory government and the country boomed on easy credit both as a country (PFI finance was all borrowed) and individually (self cert and interest only mortgages). All went tits due to the yanks in 2008 and we’ve been in a political and social culture war ever since  

[wykikitoon 24090]

4 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Blair came in circumstances that will never  be repeated again ie pre internet. The country was also in recovery from Thatcher and the recession of the early 90s. He stuck to the fiscal plans of the outgoing Tory government and the country boomed on easy credit both as a country (PFI finance was all borrowed) and individually (self cert and interest only mortgages). All went tits due to the yanks in 2008 and we’ve been in a political and social culture war ever since  

Pre-Internet? I think you mean pre social media.

But agree with you.

[PaddockLad 19947]

3 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Pre-Internet? I think you mean pre social media.

But agree with you.

Well yeah that to me is pretty much the same thing. Facebook was only widely used on home pc’s initially not on everyone’s phone. That didn’t require a WiFi router in your house but most homes had it by the early-mid 2000s before Facebook appeared in 2007 ish… I know this because I got my first pc in 2005 ish and I was a pretty late adopter mostly because I didn’t really need one and dial up was a gigantic pain in the arse as far as I could make out… basically all my friends had told me “GET YOUR FUCKIN OWN!”  

[wykikitoon 24090]

I suppose in '96 it wasn't the readily available internet it is now like you say.

 

It's things like that we seem to overlook and the impact it has now.

[Gemmill 53346]

PL going round to his mate's house to watch porn ffs.

 

Reprehensible.

[Howmanheyman 38372]

10 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Well yeah that to me is pretty much the same thing. Facebook was only widely used on home pc’s initially not on everyone’s phone. That didn’t require a WiFi router in your house but most homes had it by the early-mid 2000s before Facebook appeared in 2007 ish… I know this because I got my first pc in 2005 ish and I was a pretty late adopter mostly because I didn’t really need one and dial up was a gigantic pain in the arse as far as I could make out… basically all my friends had told me “GET YOUR FUCKIN OWN!”  

 

2005 for our first PC as well.