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On 01/11/2019 at 14:27, Meenzer said:

 

I've already bet on the Lib Dems getting <25.5 seats. I know May fucked it up from this position but I can't imagine a repeat performance.

 

I could now cash out for a 45% profit, which shows you what a stellar two weeks Swinson has had. :lol: 

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16 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

What are the main issues in your view? They haven't released their manifesto yet so it's difficult for anyone to be totally clear on it. At my best attempt, here are the ones that sound fairly firm:

 

On Brexit he wants the people to put it to bed by going to Europe and securing a Brexit deal that won't harm the country, and then putting it back to the people in recognition of the fact that Parliament has failed sort this out.

 

On taxes it sounds like he intends to raise taxes on those earning more than £85k. Everyone else will be untouched, at least on income tax. Those earning over this figure will be paying 5% more than they are now which corresponds to a few hundred quid a year. But their take home pay is about £4k/month, so it's not a massive deal.

 

On the NHS, Labour will of course put more money in which will reduce waiting times and improve care. The country can afford this and indeed would benefit from a good round of spending, as evidenced by the fact that even the Tories are claiming that they need to spend money now. It's good economics.

 

That's all I know for certain really off the top of my head. Many other points have been raised like 4 day working weeks and so on (which I think would be better phrased as 32 hour weeks, since the data is actually that companies are just as productive with employees working 6 hours per day as they are when they work 8), but we don't know the specifics for the manifesto yet.

 

Obviously he plans to renationalise rail and some utilities as well to stop them being owned by foreign governments and ideally to lower costs (although ewerk put up a decent criticism of this move a few pages back).

Funny you should mention that Labour haven’t yet released their Manifesto.…

 

The BBC are clearly employing clairvoyants ( so long as they’re Torys). 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50291676?app=news.election.2019.story.50291676.page

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First Brexit Party candidate withdraws within an hour of the deadline. In a seat that Labour won by 22 votes last time. 

 

I bet this won't be the last... 

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1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

"I think you should take that back old boy!" :lol'

 

 

How statesmanlike 

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They weren't running last time out either. It's not making it inevitable that Labour will lose those seats, just more difficult.

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One of thatchers greatest crimes was preventing BT from getting into cable to sweeten the pot for the city. 

 

Set the country back years at the altar of privatisation and capitalism. 

 

They could just nationalise openreach. 

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11 hours ago, Rayvin said:

On Brexit he wants the people to put it to bed by going to Europe and securing a Brexit deal that won't harm the country, and then putting it back to the people in recognition of the fact that Parliament has failed sort this out.

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

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Breakfast News on the BBC speaking to a trawler fisherman again. Who gives a fuck? It’s a minuscule part of the economy and the only reason they’ve still got anything to fish is because of the quotas.

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3 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

The past three years have been defined by the tory red lines though - a more compromising set would invite a more reasonable deal. 

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8 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Actually I quite like the sound of that one.

Why? It's isn't really an issue to 99% of the people in this country, broadband is relatively inexpensive at the moment.

Nationalisation is like cat nip to the momentum lot but most people are either indifferent or even worse the word strikes fear into their hearts. It's a net vote loser in my opinion and something they should probably be keeping quiet rather than promoting.

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4 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

 

It means negotiating a customs union and at the least a very close relationship to the single market. It's a sensible compromise to most reasonable people but the last three years have been polarising to the point where sensible doesn't quite cut it any more. 

The biggest problem is that the majority of people are sick of talking about Brexit and just want it over and done with which is what the Tories are promising. What they're failing to see is that the next few years at least are going to be spent sorting out the future relationship so leaving isn't the end of it. Just the end of the beginning.

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8 hours ago, Renton said:

James Cleverly has been eviscerated tonight. Again. I almost feel sorry for him. Almost. 

Another Tory ethnic minority sent out to take the flak. Where are all the whiteys? 

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33 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Why? It's isn't really an issue to 99% of the people in this country, broadband is relatively inexpensive at the moment.

Nationalisation is like cat nip to the momentum lot but most people are either indifferent or even worse the word strikes fear into their hearts. It's a net vote loser in my opinion and something they should probably be keeping quiet rather than promoting.

Most things poll well for nationalisation - I think this would as well - those with a negative view of it tend to be people who have a bug bear about the 70s and perceived issues - probably pensioners who'll vote tory anyway. 

 

I think an argument about who owns services which benefit everyone is a good one to have - we shouldn't be frightened by dogma from 35/40 years ago when people can see utter failures like the probation service as examples of going too far. 

 

Maybe making it free is a stretch as then you could argue the same for other utilities but I think aiming for a reasonable cost would be fine. 

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5 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

From a (fortunately) outsider's point of view, this is the main issue.  What does any of that mean?  Has that not what has been argued about by everyone for the past 3 years?  I am afraid it looks wishy-washy between the adamant leavers and remainers, but is clearly more on the leavers side than the remainers. 

So do you not end up losing the remainers completely, and splitting the leavers?  Given there are probably more rabid leavers than tepid ones, what does that achieve?

 

I won't re-tread the ground of others who replied but will add that from the point of view of Labour's electoral chances in isolation, yes it's damaging. But for remain in general, with the LDs offering full remain, it maximises the voter pool available across all remain flavoured parties. I honestly think its logical and so far no one has been able to challenge this particular point.

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20 minutes ago, NJS said:

Most things poll well for nationalisation - I think this would as well - those with a negative view of it tend to be people who have a bug bear about the 70s and perceived issues - probably pensioners who'll vote tory anyway. 

 

I think an argument about who owns services which benefit everyone is a good one to have - we shouldn't be frightened by dogma from 35/40 years ago when people can see utter failures like the probation service as examples of going too far. 

 

Maybe making it free is a stretch as then you could argue the same for other utilities but I think aiming for a reasonable cost would be fine. 

There are certain industries that are better off in public hands and some better off with private competition. In NI we have one water company that is government owned and we don't pay any water bills. I can't understand why something like that is privatised or what the hell the benefit of it is to the public.

Trains, in my opinion, should be privatised with competition benefitting the consumer but that has been tried and failed so should go back to public ownership.

But I just can't see any need or justification to nationalise broadband and provide it free of charge. It seems a step too far to me.

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