Scots Money

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

Yep, pretty much.

 

I know of a few businesses who have closed up and moved south of the border, as they fear the change.

Like who?

[JawD 31]

The currency thing is huge in my opinion. My company had an office in Glasgow and we sell product to businesses around Scotland. Let's say they moved to the Euro, that throws everything up in the air and the value of a product is no longer constant due to exchange rate fluctuations. You can make it work to your advantage (pre-purchasing currency at a good rate) but what a fuck on.

 

I also employ people up there so then you wonder how that will be effected. The currency of payment and also any employment law that could change.

[Rayvin 4964]

Yeah the currency threat was the first intelligent thing I've seen Osborne do in his entire term in office. Salmond has got not a great deal of time to persuade a large undecided voter group that he can provide a credible alternative. His threat not to share in the national debt is bollocks, the EU and IMF wouldn't lend Scotland a penny if they did that.

 

With that said, I fullly, fully sympathise with Scotland and wish they could take us with them if they go. We're ruled by a bunch of utter fuckwits in London with absolutely no interest in our region whatsoever. And someone mentioned earlier that if Scotland go then the Tories will be even harder to get out of power; very true - it's like 40 odd seats Labour would lose, that will make a difference.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Rayvin

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

Like with too many things the SNP have not planned ahead for this. Instead of political posturing they should have been negotiating these things well ahead of time.

It does however hand the scottish government to them on a plate for quite some time because all of the other parties are now the people who wanted to bankrupt the people of Scotland out of spite.

[ewerk 26347]

 

That may be your opinion sir, but I can absolutely assure you that I am neither anti-England/UK/London or any other tag you wish to put on me - it may be hard for you to get your head round that the Tartan army invasions for the bi-annual match at Wembley and the jingositic kilt and glengarry wearing anti-English nonsense that was part and parcel of it in the 60's and 70's has largely gone by-the-by over the years and really only applied to a minority of the population. The TA may have sang about hating England but they also sang about Jimmy Hill being a poof and going to win he world cup - in the grand scheme of things none of them were really firmly held beliefs at all.

 

You may very well be of the opinion that currency blah blah blah is important but that's only becaulse the BBC EBC are giving it so much airtime - say it often enough and peolple start to believe it (weapons of mass destruction anyone?). What you maybe haven't realised yet is that the BBC also have a strong vested interest in the outcome of the vote ... as should we go we'd still get the TV and radio output but they wouldn't have a mandate to collect the licence fee - hence the output so far nationally being heavily weighted towards the No campaign and the media manipulation by the Tories - anything to get the news away from a few puddles down on the Somerset levels.

 

Simple fact is I'm a Scot who lives up here and therefore I'm entitled to vote any way I wish. I will be voting YES and I am unlikely to be swayed by the incessantly negative politics emanating from Westminster or from the parties whose HQ is in London purporting to be 'Scottish' branches of the parties who have consistently failed to grow some balls and have their own opinion (I personally know of a few labour MP's and MSP's - also related to a sitting MP - who privately confide that they are being denied any voice at all on the matter). I still would like a bit of grown up discussion from the No side but sadly, as things stand, they have offered littlle of anything constructive and seem happy to stick out a wee scare story every day.

 

Finally, given the fact that we have more pandas up here than Tory MP's, it really is not a wise move for these chaps to be seen to be lecturing us on a daily basis - we all remember Thatcher and what she did to us and the north of England/Wales and have long memories - but I'm delighted that they care so much to continually blather on about it - even the mother-in-law has swung towards the YES side last week which I never saw coming at all ... that swing was solely attributed to Cameron's speech at the velodrome - lecturing us from London didn't go down too well with the old bat.

 

 

For someone who wishes to discuss the facts you haven't come up with too many there. Your posts come across that you're blinded by nationalist jingoism, rather than someone who has sat down and studied that facts.

 

When you begin comparing the BBC's coverage to that of the search for weapons of mass-destruction then you're onto a loser. And for the record, the BBC would be unlikely to lose much from an independent Scotland. You would still be paying a license fee to SBS which is pretty much going to be a rebranded BBC. You're still going to have to pay BBC to run SBS for you and you're still going to have to pay them for the bulk of SBS' content. But again it fits your view that everyone from the South East is out to get you. You're the Yes vote's dream.

[ewerk 26347]

all of the other parties are now the people who wanted to bankrupt the people of Scotland out of spite.

 

So not allowing you to have your cake and eat it should be viewed as bankrupting Scotland out of spite?

[Rayvin 4964]

 

So not allowing you to have your cake and eat it should be viewed as bankrupting Scotland out of spite?

 

It's politics though isn't it? That's probably exactly how Salmond will spin it. I mean he has to frankly, I don't see what else he can do.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

 

So not allowing you to have your cake and eat it should be viewed as bankrupting Scotland out of spite?

Yes Scotland wants Democratic independence. What's wrong with that. The best money policy taking into consideration the fiscal dependency of Uk and Scotland would be a continued monetary union. This would stop the need for businesses to have to waste millions of pounds a year on currency deals. The unionist parties don't want the people of Scotland to have political independence because they are worried it will affect them personally. By that I mean it might lead to other regions wanting more political accountability and the last thing westminster wants is accountability. To try and stop this they are threatening to do their utmost to ruin Scotland financially from the beginning by refusing something which while not easy and would need CO OPERATION is definitely possible without to much hardship.

[ewerk 26347]

You want independence and you've been given the chance to choose independence. Beyond that the UK owes you fuck all. They have no moral obligation to offer you a monetary union, they're quite right to tell you to go fuck yourselves. If you want to be independent then you're going to have to deal with the consequences of it. It's like your kid moving out of home for the first time but expecting you still to do his laundry. If you want to be independent then you can be but don't start crying when the one you want to leave refuses to support you.

[Rayvin 4964]

You want independence and you've been given the chance to choose independence. Beyond that the UK owes you fuck all. They have no moral obligation to offer you a monetary union, they're quite right to tell you to go fuck yourselves. If you want to be independent then you're going to have to deal with the consequences of it. It's like your kid moving out of home for the first time but expecting you still to do his laundry. If you want to be independent then you can be but don't start crying when the one you want to leave refuses to support you.

 

That's the same argument the Scots are using about £120bn of national debt mind you - it legally belongs to the treasury apparently... although I still think that the consequences of avoiding that would be dire.

 

As an aside, the fact that Osborne came out with this, on reflection, must mean that there is a serious enough chance of a yes vote that Westminster is prepared to drop the pretense and play hard ball.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

You want independence and you've been given the chance to choose independence. Beyond that the UK owes you fuck all. They have no moral obligation to offer you a monetary union, they're quite right to tell you to go fuck yourselves. If you want to be independent then you're going to have to deal with the consequences of it. It's like your kid moving out of home for the first time but expecting you still to do his laundry. If you want to be independent then you can be but don't start crying when the one you want to leave refuses to support you.

Well that's very grown up I didn 't realise the UK was the equivalent of a teenage boy being dumped. Well if the UK does not want Scotland to have anything to do with Sterling then they can't complain if Scotland also hasnothing to do with Sterlings debt. That is not petulance it's just sense. It will also have no bearing on lfutire loan terms. Unless of course youhave quotes from the IMF that says different.

[desmondTUTU 0]

either scotland takes the euro of has their own currency or they decide to stay put.

 

3 options.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

either scotland takes the euro of has their own currency or they decide to stay put.

 

3 options.

I agree I think the Euro will probably be the answer if it comes to it. The thing is all the pro union mob had to do to cut the legs from underneath the snp is offer a bit more devolution and go through with the recall policy they promised.

[ewerk 26347]

Well that's very grown up I didn 't realise the UK was the equivalent of a teenage boy being dumped. Well if the UK does not want Scotland to have anything to do with Sterling then they can't complain if Scotland also hasnothing to do with Sterlings debt. That is not petulance it's just sense. It will also have no bearing on lfutire loan terms. Unless of course youhave quotes from the IMF that says different.

 

So even though the debt was run up while you were part of the Union you don't think you should pay for it?

[PaddockLad 14585]

Well that's very grown up I didn 't realise the UK was the equivalent of a teenage boy being dumped. Well if the UK does not want Scotland to have anything to do with Sterling then they can't complain if Scotland also hasnothing to do with Sterlings debt. That is not petulance it's just sense. It will also have no bearing on lfutire loan terms. Unless of course youhave quotes from the IMF that says different.

 

 

Hes from Northern Ireland, which ironically contains the most "BRITISH!!!" of British people in these islands and also the least

 

I dont see whats wrong with what Osoborne said in the week....Scotland cant expect to have a say in the rest of the UK's fiscal policy if they want to be truly independant, which is basically what a currency union would mean. The SNP are like a bunch of parish councillors who have suddenly decided they want to run a modern western democracy. Theyre fuckin clueless, but if they can pick at the anti English chip present in most Scots' psyche the vote may be close; topcoat seems to be "ahead of the curve" in this.

Edited February 15, 2014 by PaddockLad

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

 

So even though the debt was run up while you were part of the Union you don't think you should pay for it?

No. It was run up by london.

[ewerk 26347]

I better you're the kind of guy who complains that he didn't have a starter.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

I better you're the kind of guy who complains that he didn't have a starter.

I always have a starter, main, dessert, coffee and brandy.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3205]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_area

[ADP 0]

 

 

You are much better off within the Union and should be looking how to leverage your position within the UK rather than blindly following the anti-UK/London rhetoric that is being fed to you.

 

 

I agree. Also with your other posts on the matter.

[ewerk 26347]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_area

 

The financial world is massively more complicated now than it was at that time.

[topcat 0]

It continues to alarm me that Ewerk thinks I'm some sort of Saltire waving haggis shagging recreator of the Bannockburn spirit - when nothing could be further from the truth - and yes I do know it's an internet discussion board and (by and large) these forums do have a proportion of absolute dafties and trolls but hiscontinued assertions in this regard are well wide of the mark.

 

Onto the studying of the facts. I have read (cover to cover - and available free of charge if you wish a copy) the following document:

 

 

Published by the SNP it details, as much as any forward plan can two years ahead of time, how they see things panning out. It continues in the same positive manner as Scottish politics has developed since devolution - one that continues the ideals of a fairer society for all who live here. It's now out there and the opposition are taking aim at every page (currently on currency) but in doing so are trodding down an extremely divisive and negative path.

 

So despite reading this document I would still not say I am in possession of ALL of the facts. I have waited each day for the Better Together campaign to put together a similar document detailing why, indeed, we would be better off with the status quo. However they simply cannot splice anything cohesive together for publication as they know Salmond will tear it to shreds. He's not some bogey man as he's being made out - he can be a total pain in the ar*e but he is, like it or not, a clever politician and staggeringly head and shoulders politically above any MSP up here ... and the reluctance of Cameron to concede to a televised debate also shows the understanding that he fears being ripped apart on national TV. If the BT campaign ever get round to publishing a document then I'll happily order a copy and read it cover to cover too.

 

You also assert that I am the YES campaign's dream voter. I alluded in a previous post to (quote) I will be voting YES and I am unlikely to be swayed by the incessantly negative politics emanating from Westminster . I stand by that quote in contradiction of your dream voter tag, I remain open to discussion of facts - sadly there are no positive poilitics emanating from the No camp for me to make a fully informed decision - therefore at the moment it is a YES.

 

Regrettably though, it suits the unionist parties to peddle the daily negative scare stories in the hope that the constant drip drip will seep into the minds of the undecided. The latest one is the front page of the Glasgow Herald newspaper where apparently we will be denied independence even if we vote YES - has this been given top billing on the BBC news or do they continue to push the currency agenda?

 

 

Yet another negative story which perhaps will undoubtedly push some peolple over to the YES side - and I agree that after Carney from the Bank of England spoke canidly that a currency union may be possible the other week, Gideon has come out to say it can'y happen shows that they are perhaps getting rather worried that the BT campaign is having so little effect.

 

Finally, I'll leave Ewerk with a question - what have all these places have in common?

 

Federation of South Arabia,
Sudan,
Australia,
The Bahamas,
Bahrain,
Bangladesh,
Barbados,
Lesotho Basutoland,
Bermuda,
Botswana,
British Antarctic Territory,
Guyana,
British Guiana
Belize British Honduras,
British Indian Ocean Territory,
Solomon Islands,
British Somaliland Protectorate (left in 1964),
British Virgin Islands, Brunei,
Burma (left in 1966),
Cayman Islands,Dominion of Ceylon Ceylon (Sri Lanka),
Cyprus,
Egypt (left in 1947),
Falkland Islands,
Fiji,
The Gambia,
Ghana,
Gibraltar,
Tuvalu Gilbert and Ellice Islands (Kiribati and Tuvalu),
Hong Kong,
Iceland,
Republic of Ireland (until 1971),
India (including Sikkim),
Iraq (left in 1959)
Jamaica,
Jordan,
Kenya,
Kuwait
AnguillaAntigua and Barbuda,Montserrat,Saint Kitts and Nevis Leeward Islands (comprising Anguilla, Antigua and Barbuda, Montserrat, and Saint Kitts (Saint Christopher and Nevis))
Libya (expelled in 1971)
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives Maldive Islands
Malta
Mauritius
Oman Muscat and Oman (Sultanate of Oman)
Nauru
New Zealand (including, Cook Islands, Niue, and Tokelau Islands)
Nigeria
Israel British Mandate for Palestine (required to withdraw in 1948 following the creation of the state of Israel & New Breed
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
Pitcairn Islands
Qatar
Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) (expelled in 1965)
Saint HelenaUnited KingdomTristan da Cunha Saint Helena (including Ascension Island and Tristan da Cunha)
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
South Africa
Namibia South West Africa (Namibia)
Swaziland
Tanganyika
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Oman Trucial Oman (United Arab Emirates)
United Kingdom Turks and Caicos Islands
Uganda
the Channel Islands, and the Isle of Man
Samoa
Dominica,Grenada,Saint Lucia,Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Windward Islands (comprising Dominica, Grenada, Saint Lucia, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines)
Zambia
Zanzibar

[ewerk 26347]

I'm too tired and a little drunk to respond to the rest of your post but if you believe that a sterling area from 35+ years ago proves any sort of argument on currency then you're deluded.

[The Fish 8989]

I personally am looking forward to Scotland getting independence.

 

Start charging tolls for all that travel for hours just to get to a shopping centre.

[Rob W 0]

Amazing - they asy ask for "clarity" as to what the relationship will be post-independence and when they get it they go off on their stanadrd anti-English rant

 

Sure they can keep the pound sterling - but they will have no say in setting interets rates, financial policy etc etc - I suppose it would give the Nats an on-going chip on their shoulder to bear.

 

TBF I think Scottish & Irish pound notes should be legal tender througout the UK - it just irriataes the hell out of the Scots when they gettheir money turned away