v.old 76 Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 Interesting article; apologies if posted elsewhere. Uefa’s wealth distribution favours established elite while putting Newcastle in their place Martin Samuels Saturday May 27 2023, 6.00pm, The Sunday Times If Newcastle United are knocked out of the Champions League at the group stage next season, they will earn in the region of £21.5 million. If the same fate befalls Manchester City, it is likely to be nearer £58 million. And fair enough, you may say. City won the league, Newcastle are fourth at present. Yet here’s the thing. Even if those positions were flipped — so City are fourth, Newcastle first — and both went out at the group stage, City would still be close to £20 million ahead. Thank Uefa’s ten-year historical co-efficient pot. Keeps the rich rich, keeps the poor poor. And exposes the myth around financial fair play. If clubs can only spend what they earn, and then the tournament regulations restrict that capacity, where’s the financial fairness? Yet to keep the elite clubs sweet, and to ward off the threat of a breakaway super league, Uefa has increasingly skewed its revenue streams in favour of the biggest and wealthiest. Then the financial rules tie each club to the size of its revenue stream. And see what they did? Derren Brown would be proud. In recent years, just about every major change made in wealth distribution by Uefa has benefited the establishment. In 2016-17, it was possible for Leicester City to be the Premier League’s highest earners in Europe. They won their domestic competition, they went further in the Champions League than any other English club, so it made sense. That season, Leicester earned €17.1 million (£14.86 million) more from Uefa competition than their nearest rivals, Arsenal. That has changed. Without unimagined success — and also unimagined failure on the part of all their Premier League rivals, which gives one club a greater share of the television pool — it is hard to see how Newcastle can repeat this. It’s why a club of Leicester’s size can win the league one year, the FA Cup a short while later and then be plunged into FFP crisis soon after. The Champions League, and European football generally, is no longer worth the same to new arrivals and the established elite, no matter what the new club has achieved. The ten-year historical co-efficient pot distributes revenue according to a club’s performance in Europe over the past decade. The total, £522 million, is divided on a sliding scale, with Real Madrid in line for £31.65 million and Manchester City £28.67 million despite that 5-1 aggregate semi-final scoreline. Madrid are rewarded for being good some years ago, regardless of how they perform now. Yet Newcastle most recently played in Europe in the Europa League in 2012-13. They literally have no historical co-efficient points in the present system. This means they are assigned one-fifth of the English overall co-efficient, quite probably the lowest total in the competition, and worth £989,000. That payment would not change, even had they been league champions. By comparison, Arsenal will receive £21.75 million and Manchester United £24.72 million. Newcastle could switch places with Manchester United this afternoon and it would make no difference to the cut decided on past performance. Historical co-efficients are not interested in what just happened; only what went before. So far, so protectionist; but then factor FFP into it with clubs only spending what they earn and you see how corrupt the whole idea is, with the wealthy lobbying to place limitations on the earning potential of upstart rivals. And it will get worse. When the new Champions League format begins in 2024-25, it will include two additional performance-related places. Originally, these were going to be awarded to the clubs with the highest five-year co-efficient that had not already qualified through league position but, rightly, there was uproar. This could have resulted in an established elite club skipping from domestic sixth place, over the fifth placed team, and into Uefa’s marquee competition. No prizes for guessing who was keen on that but, for once, the word fairness was applied in its correct context and Uefa backed down. Now the two extra places will go to teams from the countries with the best co-efficient ratings from the previous campaign. Next year, that would have been England and Italy. Most years, let’s be frank, it’s going to be England and somebody. Nothing taken for granted, of course — reliable Spain has underperformed in 2022-23 — but it is probable the Premier League will get five over the line with some regularity. The more English clubs the merrier. Yet this season that would have ruined one of the more compelling narratives towards the end of the season — will Liverpool catch United or Newcastle? — and with ten-year historical co-efficients so important, it helps to maintain the dominance of the cabal. Instead of missing out on the Champions League next season, Liverpool would continue their run of six straight years in the competition, building on their historical ranking as they go, and making it harder for smaller rivals to get their share. This all then bleeds into calculations around FFP. It is why some observers refuse to be weaned off the idea that clubs like Newcastle — and City before them — should not meekly continue to be feeders for the elite. Last week the former Liverpool midfielder Dietmar Hamann was discussing the midfielders needed to bolster Jürgen Klopp’s team for next season. “I’d like a player like Joelinton, who’s got a physical presence,” he said. But why would Joelinton leave Newcastle, who have edged Liverpool out of the Champions League, unless it was felt there was a limit on what a player could achieve there? Witness the debate around Newcastle’s proposed £25 million-a-year shirt sponsorship deal with Sela, who are majority-owned by the Saudi Public Investment Fund, as are the club. Sela are the IMG of Saudi Arabia, organising events such as motorsport’s Race of Champions. This deal would fall into the remit of the Premier League’s related-party transactions. Yet no such scrutiny would be applied if Sela went into business with United. The longest-standing commercial partner at Old Trafford is Saudi Telecom. And this again seeps into the fabric of FFP. It’s fine for United to make money from Saudi Arabia, but if Newcastle do it, there’s suspicion. In the meantime, nobody looks at the elite clubs and Uefa’s ten-year historical co-efficient payments and spies related parties. Yet they might as well be joined at the hip. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3978 Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 "United or Newcastle". He's still a fat tramp. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38761 Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 50 minutes ago, v.old said: The longest-standing commercial partner at Old Trafford is Saudi Telecom Miguel Delaney on reading this 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polarboy 2124 Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 (edited) Clearly the fair thing would be for the co-efficient to only apply to which seed you are for the draw as opposed to the money you receive for progress, but the world we live in is corrupt to the core. The one silver lining is that I'd be confident that we could manage top five most seasons when the extra champions league place comes in season after next. To get to Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U, and to a lesser extent Spurs and Arsenal given they've missed CL on a fair few occasions over the last ten years, level of revenue is going to be a long slog. We're going to have to be very careful as a club so as to not become a Leicester or Everton when it comes to FFP, and be patient as fans when we're told that we can't spend what we like just because we have the richest owners. We could of course hope that the Saudi owners will employ some dark arts and learn from Man City so as to not get caught. And not necessarily to hide how much we're spending, but rather to put pressure on UEFA so as to make the co-efficient system more fair. Then again given the threat of a break away Super League that might prove impossible. Edited May 28, 2023 by Polarboy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14585 Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 I’ll just leave this here 😊 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 22 hours ago, v.old said: Interesting article; apologies if posted elsewhere. Uefa’s wealth distribution favours established elite while putting Newcastle in their place Martin Samuels Saturday May 27 2023, 6.00pm, The Sunday Times If Newcastle United are knocked out of the Champions League at the group stage next season, they will earn in the region of £21.5 million. If the same fate befalls Manchester City, it is likely to be nearer £58 million. And fair enough, you may say. City won the league, Newcastle are fourth at present. Yet here’s the thing. Even if those positions were flipped — so City are fourth, Newcastle first — and both went out at the group stage, City would still be close to £20 million ahead. Thank Uefa’s ten-year historical co-efficient pot. Keeps the rich rich, keeps the poor poor. And exposes the myth around financial fair play. If clubs can only spend what they earn, and then the tournament regulations restrict that capacity, where’s the financial fairness? Yet to keep the elite clubs sweet, and to ward off the threat of a breakaway super league, Uefa has increasingly skewed its revenue streams in favour of the biggest and wealthiest. Then the financial rules tie each club to the size of its revenue stream. And see what they did? Derren Brown would be proud. In recent years, just about every major change made in wealth distribution by Uefa has benefited the establishment. In 2016-17, it was possible for Leicester City to be the Premier League’s highest earners in Europe. They won their domestic competition, they went further in the Champions League than any other English club, so it made sense. That season, Leicester earned €17.1 million (£14.86 million) more from Uefa competition than their nearest rivals, Arsenal. That has changed. Without unimagined success — and also unimagined failure on the part of all their Premier League rivals, which gives one club a greater share of the television pool — it is hard to see how Newcastle can repeat this. It’s why a club of Leicester’s size can win the league one year, the FA Cup a short while later and then be plunged into FFP crisis soon after. The Champions League, and European football generally, is no longer worth the same to new arrivals and the established elite, no matter what the new club has achieved. The ten-year historical co-efficient pot distributes revenue according to a club’s performance in Europe over the past decade. The total, £522 million, is divided on a sliding scale, with Real Madrid in line for £31.65 million and Manchester City £28.67 million despite that 5-1 aggregate semi-final scoreline. Madrid are rewarded for being good some years ago, regardless of how they perform now. Yet Newcastle most recently played in Europe in the Europa League in 2012-13. They literally have no historical co-efficient points in the present system. This means they are assigned one-fifth of the English overall co-efficient, quite probably the lowest total in the competition, and worth £989,000. That payment would not change, even had they been league champions. By comparison, Arsenal will receive £21.75 million and Manchester United £24.72 million. Newcastle could switch places with Manchester United this afternoon and it would make no difference to the cut decided on past performance. Historical co-efficients are not interested in what just happened; only what went before. So far, so protectionist; but then factor FFP into it with clubs only spending what they earn and you see how corrupt the whole idea is, with the wealthy lobbying to place limitations on the earning potential of upstart rivals. And it will get worse. When the new Champions League format begins in 2024-25, it will include two additional performance-related places. Originally, these were going to be awarded to the clubs with the highest five-year co-efficient that had not already qualified through league position but, rightly, there was uproar. This could have resulted in an established elite club skipping from domestic sixth place, over the fifth placed team, and into Uefa’s marquee competition. No prizes for guessing who was keen on that but, for once, the word fairness was applied in its correct context and Uefa backed down. Now the two extra places will go to teams from the countries with the best co-efficient ratings from the previous campaign. Next year, that would have been England and Italy. Most years, let’s be frank, it’s going to be England and somebody. Nothing taken for granted, of course — reliable Spain has underperformed in 2022-23 — but it is probable the Premier League will get five over the line with some regularity. The more English clubs the merrier. Yet this season that would have ruined one of the more compelling narratives towards the end of the season — will Liverpool catch United or Newcastle? — and with ten-year historical co-efficients so important, it helps to maintain the dominance of the cabal. Instead of missing out on the Champions League next season, Liverpool would continue their run of six straight years in the competition, building on their historical ranking as they go, and making it harder for smaller rivals to get their share. This all then bleeds into calculations around FFP. It is why some observers refuse to be weaned off the idea that clubs like Newcastle — and City before them — should not meekly continue to be feeders for the elite. Last week the former Liverpool midfielder Dietmar Hamann was discussing the midfielders needed to bolster Jürgen Klopp’s team for next season. “I’d like a player like Joelinton, who’s got a physical presence,” he said. But why would Joelinton leave Newcastle, who have edged Liverpool out of the Champions League, unless it was felt there was a limit on what a player could achieve there? Witness the debate around Newcastle’s proposed £25 million-a-year shirt sponsorship deal with Sela, who are majority-owned by the Saudi Public Investment Fund, as are the club. Sela are the IMG of Saudi Arabia, organising events such as motorsport’s Race of Champions. This deal would fall into the remit of the Premier League’s related-party transactions. Yet no such scrutiny would be applied if Sela went into business with United. The longest-standing commercial partner at Old Trafford is Saudi Telecom. And this again seeps into the fabric of FFP. It’s fine for United to make money from Saudi Arabia, but if Newcastle do it, there’s suspicion. In the meantime, nobody looks at the elite clubs and Uefa’s ten-year historical co-efficient payments and spies related parties. Yet they might as well be joined at the hip. fat pig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polarboy 2124 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34461 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 "It gets steamy in here" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34461 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Him and Matty going at it once the cameras went off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobElliott 970 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Wor Shola won't be winning any oscars anytime soon! Great to see inside the training ground 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Just now, Gemmill said: Him and Matty going at it once the cameras went off. Whether Matty wanted to or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34461 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 The Matty Slayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobElliott 970 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 1 minute ago, The Fish said: Whether Matty wanted to or not. One of the few times Shola scored while at the club 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16647 Posted May 30, 2023 Author Share Posted May 30, 2023 "It's my favourite part of the training ground" (The canteen) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Wtf is that 'bit' at the end though - "now that you've seen our crib, I would appreciate it if you would remove yourselves from our premises" I feel like it's meant to be a joke but the delivery is so dead that it just seems kind of brutal. Does look like a well set up place though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26345 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Wtf is that 'bit' at the end though - "now that you've seen our crib, I would appreciate it if you would remove yourselves from our premises" I feel like it's meant to be a joke but the delivery is so dead that it just seems kind of brutal. Does look like a well set up place though. Did you never see Shola’s star turn on MTV Cribs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohhh_yeah 2767 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, RobElliott said: Great to see inside the training ground 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Did you never see Shola’s star turn on MTV Cribs? I didn't - just googled it, can see it's a running joke, but felt just as brutal then as it does now I guess whatever it is, I've missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34461 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 Jump to 6:52 for some discussion of us, in particular comparing us to Klopp's Liverpool (when they were good). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30409 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 The mention of Shola on MTV cribs reminds me of the story about the time he rang the police to report a burglary. Only for him to subsequently realise it was just a fucking tip 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3471 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 On 29/05/2023 at 07:47, Polarboy said: Barely noticed the 40 min video fly by. What a season man. You'd think with the media attention on shithousery that we'd scrapped by 1-0s the whole season. We've proper battered a few teams this season inlcuding a few top half ones. Tough to choose goal of the season betwen Miggy at Fulham and ASM at Wolves. I'd go with ASM in the end because of where he's hit it from and it was in the 90 minute. Can't wait to see what Howe and team do with Isak next season. He really has the potential to be a top 5 European forward. Also a bit of a mad bastard isn't he, some of those goal celebrations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 20 minutes ago, aimaad22 said: Barely noticed the 40 min video fly by. What a season man. You'd think with the media attention on shithousery that we'd scrapped by 1-0s the whole season. We've proper battered a few teams this season inlcuding a few top half ones. Tough to choose goal of the season betwen Miggy at Fulham and ASM at Wolves. I'd go with ASM in the end because of where he's hit it from and it was in the 90 minute. Can't wait to see what Howe and team do with Isak next season. He really has the potential to be a top 5 European forward. Also a bit of a mad bastard isn't he, some of those goal celebrations Isak loves it gets well into it when he scores. Loved that one when he put his dead down and went right into the crowd to celebrate with them. He's got great spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14585 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 6 hours ago, Gemmill said: Jump to 6:52 for some discussion of us, in particular comparing us to Klopp's Liverpool (when they were good). Quite interesting, JJ Bull appears to be from Aberdeen🐑....is he an actual toon fan or was the 96 replica just the next one out of his draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34461 Posted May 30, 2023 Share Posted May 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Quite interesting, JJ Bull appears to be from Aberdeen🐑....is he an actual toon fan or was the 96 replica just the next one out of his draw? Honestly not sure. He definitely seems to have a soft spot for us but couldn't tell you if he's actually a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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