Rayvin

We've nailed the bust part at least. All time world champions at this point IMO.

I do occasionally wonder what the average age in here must be 48? ish?

You mean like left wing populism? Or I suppose in Starmer's case it would be sort of like... populism of competence

This is a fair point mind - do we need Labour to start acknowledging Reform as the opposition so they can gun for Farage more directly?

I broadly agree with a lot of this although it's a bit of a hail mary for Labour to go 'we'll look competent and then hope the economic situation improves' as their strategy for retaining power. I'd prefer them to have a bit more about them than that. We need a longer term pivot away from the culture war.

Fair enough, but then 'what has gone wrong' becomes the complete lack of messaging and unifying narrative vision around it. The number of times I've defended Labour now while arguing about the steps they're taking to combat immigration and so on... why am I doing that and not Labour? Why am I doing it at all ffs, I need a fucking life.

One other thing though - Reform vs the Tories. It's like in movies when the villain creates some feral, demonic evil to do its bidding, but then in a moment of poetic justice is consumed by said evil at the end, as it fails to control it. The Tories tried to avoid a minor splintering with Brexit, and instead have been eaten alive, fully torn apart, by the very thing their complacent, ignorant, wanton stupidity created. And it's no more than the pack of traitorous quislings deserve.

Pandering to the red wall voter has been a complete shambles post-Brexit, it doesn't work and has only cost them support amongst the people who would more naturally vote for them anyway. I want to vote for Labour, I do, why am I being repelled in order to win people who aren't listening anyway? Beyond that, the most convincing messaging you can give any public is one that is based on what you actually believe in. We did have a moment when Labour won the GE to actually put the country back on the rails with compassionate left leaning governance - and we've squandered that for absolutely nothing. I do not believe Keir Starmer is a right winger or a closet Tory, but I do know that what he is instead is too weak to stand up for what he believes in. He is a missed opportunity, and in my eyes what we know about him now was apparent immediately after he won the leadership and U turned on everything he had promised. He is not pragmatic (in a political sense) because he doesn't have the skill required to be such - if he were, he'd be bringing people with him by deftly navigating policy positions to appeal to everyone. In reality it seems we're doing almost the complete opposite of that. The people still with Labour now will be those who are terrified of Reform or the Tories winning. What I'm fairly sure they will not be, are people who have a heartfelt belief in Labour's political offering - because really, Labour don't even have that themselves.

Spurs preferable but disappointed it'll be either of them tbh.

I sympathise with this view and I would just say that I would have said the same pre-Brexit, but that after it I sort of look at what we were and realise that I did value the sense of positive internationalism and progressive values that the country had by the end of New Labour. I think looking back at it now, it would be fair to say that I carried unwitting pride for that, only realised through the loss of it.

I had pride in my country right up until Brexit. So my question back to that rag would be, since when did pride in your country become prejudice alone?

Literally this If you had asked me to name the top 5 midfielders in the league, Gravenberch wouldn't even have entered my mind. Unless we're playing them, I barely even remember he exists. Top midfielder in the league my ass. I watched the whole game the other day against Spurs and just had to check now that he was even playing.

Agreed. They have no respect for us whatsoever, it's ludicrous that some people think they are more natural partners or allies than Europe. On the positive it sounds like a blow to Labour's attempt play both sides - I much rather that they're just forced to pick the EU.

Yep, a victory that wasn't going to happen until Trump basically guaranteed it.

Christ man, that last one sounds like a horror show..

Have you tried telling him this or bantering with him about it

I'm enjoying the part where Spurs are being annihilated

Good, hope City win it tbh. Palace or Forest would be stealing our thunder.

Grabbed a phone from someone in the crowd, and took a couple of selfies while the world's media fawned over him Fucking Liverpool man.

Is Richarlison just an impact sub now Spurs have been pathetic.

Not sure about this. I think we can take one more loss across the board but that we need 3 wins from 4. So to me, that means Brighton is indeed a must win game because they're an easier prospect than Arsenal. Arteta hates us. He hates Howe. He will be trying to win that game. Villa are gone from the race now IMO, short of basically everyone else slipping up massively.

That's a direct message rather than on the server tbf, but I added you now so it should work

Madrid man.... its like they want the world to hate them. Always comes off as a club run by people with the emotional state of teenagers.

Aye but they might consider on this occasion that getting rid of Lineker is the lesser of two evils

Honest answer to that is my anxiety limits my sleep anyway. I get 4-5 hours a night normally. I'll die young.