Rayvin

Yeah? Which bit in particular did Cameron succeed with? The housing question?

Fair enough; he was never going to be someone that any of us embraced wholeheartedly though. It's odd this, because you're saying that you can't vote for Labour now they have him, and I'm saying I wouldn't have been able to vote for them if they didn't. They were fucked either way in a sense; there were a great many people who simply didn't believe in them any more, whom Corbyn has brought back into the fold. On the other hand, clearly not everyone was disillusioned with them (yourself) and this sudden hijacking of the party must be a real pain given that you see this as making Labour unelectable. The thing is though, as that BBC article that Gemmill has highlighted makes clear, the Tories are occupying the 'centreground' on many issues - they may now be closer to your views than a Corbyn led Labour. Don't you find that a bit disconcerting? I reckon it's because the Tories have repackaged the 'right' as the 'centre', but the point is that Labour were endorsing that position and fighting ever increasing rightward battles. This feels like we've hit reset on that, at least.

Actually quite interesting. I've never heard anyone describe Osborne in a positive light, so that would be an intruiging step by the Blairites... it'd kill the division within Labour as well, so wouldn't be all bad.

Blair believed in God - that would officially qualify him as an idiot in the eyes of many. Also, you weren't even 'in' for Corbyn in the first place

I think it's best not to reflect on this stuff too much. The simple truth is that there is no real point to any of us being here; some people seem to find that comforting but for me it's vaguely depressing. When you consider how much of our lives we waste by going to work in the same slog day in day out, is there really any point in worrying about death? What are you missing, a few more days of working? I don't have children mind, so that might change things. I also work two jobs because I'm a fucking idiot - my outlook reflects what this has done to my perspective on life.

I read an article in the Guardian the other day that stated that all those who support Corbyn need to be prepared to defend him on all fronts and to actively engage in countering the propaganda... Not really sure how to do that in truth, beyond just arguing with CT I suppose it's important to highlight the lies whenever they come up, but probably to do so in a non-obnoxious way so that people actually pay attention. The issue remains that too many people are idiots though.

That whole video posted earlier by the Tory party has been parroted by the media. That video is a series of quotes taken out of context to mislead people. It's actually depressing just to live in a country where this is considered acceptable.

Have to admit, he's going to need to be the strongest political leader I've yet seen to be able to survive all the lies and misinformation. If this goes tits up, and it looks likely, I'm actually done with democracy, full stop. It's pointless. The media dictate who wins. If he manages to overturn the ridiculous odds against him and actually get his message across, then he's probably the best leader Labour will ever have.

I'm convinced it's still about building a decent team. It only looks ridiculous because half the teams in the division simply aren't bothering with the building part. They're team buying. We're suffering from having a new manager who needs time to build tbh, it's too early to say if we're wasting money yet.

McClaren seems to be blaming the transport situation. He's just said three times that he doesn't want to blame that factor, so that's clearly what he's getting at. I'm getting sick of this management deflecting criticism from players bollocks, it's all shite.

Yep, we're stuck with Haidara until at least January. Shame really. That said, hopefully McClaren is learning from all of this.

So...you watched the entire game? Wow. That's dedication to the cause, right there. Are you sure you're not actually a Newcastle fan? I think you might be...

Haidara was woeful. Every time we went down the left we ended up nowhere. Admittedly, Thauvin wasn't great.

I mention it only because it was a stated aim for the club itself

Well, this was a disgrace. Thought Janmaat played well. Perez and Aarons as well, not that the latter had long. Haidara was shocking. Cisse also poor, not that he was in his element. Thought de Jong was pretty anonymous but they had 10 men behind the ball by the time he came on. The only redeeming thing here is that WHam are actually not a bad team, on the evidence so far. There's an increasing number of teams that I consider 'not that bad' and therefore good enough to beat us mind, which isn't hugely encouraging. I think we'll be lucky to scrape top 10 this season to be honest - 14th-16th much more likely. McClaren clearly hasn't conveyed his feelings on how we should be playing to the team well enough, as we look directionless. Really needs to improve.

Funny how we suddenly look a bit better with Aarons out wide and Sissoko in the middle...

There's no build up to our play at all, it's all just random (mis)adventure. We fluke possession, ramble the ball upfield, doss around on the edge of the box waiting for Janmaat to come charging up field and take a shot. That's our game plan, on today's evidence.

Why is Janmaat the one who's had both shots on target though? He's a fucking right back!

Ah ok, fair enough. Thauvin was anonymous but I'm still unclear on why we're persisting with Sissoko out wide...

Don't see what McClaren has to lose here if he just goes for it with some attacking subs. We're bottom anyway...

We'll now have a sending off somewhere, as the players become increasingly frantic...

I think I've had enough of this now...

I guess this is where we find out if we have another Pardew, or something different...

We were bottom of the league under Pardew at this point last season weren't we?

Well, I thought we'd be down by more than 1-0 by half time, so this isn't insurmountable. Definitely need a shake up at half time though.