Renton

Leazes, you talk a lot of sense in some of your posts, but utter cobblers in others. Robson was NOT a planned appointment. We already had a manager at the time, Gullit. He was sacked and the search for a new manager began. Despite being the obvious choice (and I mean obvious to literally everyone), it took Shepherd several days to contact Robson, and according to Robson in his book, he very nearly cocked it up by offering him such a derisory salary to do the job. Complete incompetence. It's true that Robson was probably the first choice after Keegan left, but again, how could that be planned? Keegan had quit unexpectedly, there was absolutely no planning involved. So, if you look back in recent history, this is the story. Keegan - a planned and inspired choice by John Hall, not shepherd. Dalglish - not planned, but a popular choice who didn't work. Gullit - not planned, mixed reception, but madness imo considering what had happened to him at Chelsea and his known hatred of our number 9 (before he even took the job). Robson - NOT PLANNED. Fortunately available at the third time of asking, although Shepherd unbelievably almost cocks up the appointment. Souness - not planned, Shepherd makes a serious mistake under pressure from Hall jnr (aka shithead), and ends up with 5th choice manager. Unbelievable that he was in the top 1000 candidates really. Roeder - not planned, Shepherd selects him after a good term as caretaker, claiming yet again he is the fans' choice. Meanwhile, the rest of the football world are pissing themselves laughing at us. Can you spot a pattern here? Lurching from one disater to the next, almost without respite. When other clubs realise their manager is not working, they PLAN ahead, scouring the world for a good replacement, BEFORE they sack the incumbent. Not us though, which is why we are in the mess we are. Whose fault is this - the boards, of course. I'll also take issue with one other thing you said in your post. The Newcastle team that Dalglish inherited required a hell of a lot more than "tweaking" to win the league. As a first team it was good, but nowhere near the match of ManU who were coming to their peak. But the squad was poor, and we had scrapped the reserves and all but abolished the youth team. This was compounded by the fact many of the first team players were over the hill (Beardsley being a prime example). I'm sure one of the reasons Keegan left was because he knew the game was up. The task that Dalglish and subsequent managers inherited was a very hard one, not least because it coincided with having an incompetent fool as our chairman.

I saw that too and agree with your review. It's an uncomfortable experience, and one that asks more questions than it answers. You suspect that Bacon's character deep down still does not think he did anything wrong. Sad is the most appropriate adjective I'd say.

Saw the Da Vinci code yesterday. What a pile of contrived bollocks. I haven't read the book, but if the plot is anywhere near as weak as the film's, then it really is a case of Jesus Wept. Incredible that anyone can make so much money from such a poor story. I heard it cost about £150M to make this pile of horseplop, and you have to wonder where the money went. I suspect quite a bit went on Tom Hank's wages for one, which would be as wasteful as us paying Luque's salary. He is completely unconvincing. As for the catholic church being offended by this, they should really get a grip. It's obvious to anyone with more than one braincell this is a work of fiction, and a poor one at that. Hope the remake of the omen is better.

Anyway, I rate the first 3 albums, especially the Bends and OK Computer. I can't get into the rest of their stuff, and personally think Kid A is pretty awful to listen to (got it on now just to check - still don't like it). A good band, an influential band, but not the best act of the last 15 years. Nowhere near in fact.

Aye, but apart from that they were practically identical incidents.

He's also completely lacking in technical ability imo. In fact, what has he got?

Fair enough. What's a decent chance then, and what do you expect from him (e.g. goals per season at the top level)? Chopra is not a kid anymore. Btw, for every kid that makes it, dozens don't (including many promising ones).

What?

Funny thing is J69, I don't think I am particularly good at judging players, but I can spot Chopra isn't a premiership player a mile off. Yes, I have been to reserve matches. They bear no reality to first-team matches whatsoever though. Do you think they do?

I don't. I've been watching Chopra play for about 4 years.

I know this is going over the ground of an old thread, but as you have dabbled in semi-pro football (so you say iirc?), I find your judgement there astounding.

Story in the Chronicle. Maybe he is just bigging the lad up for a bigger sale, but if not this is worrying.

Ok, you've lost me. How did we plan to appoint Robson when Gullit had the job at the time. There was little or no forward planning at all, and his suitability was obvious, and his availability down to luck. What's more, if you read Robson's autobiography, Shepherd was completely unprofessional in his approach and very nearly lost his man.

Renton.....people on here constantly don't answer my questions. I have answered what I have seen, you are crucifying the board for making one shit appointment, and attempting to re-write history concering the others. I have gave you facts and examples that show the replacement manager is what is important, not the timing. Manu appointed Ferguson, and Arsenal appointed Wenger during the season. Alex Ferguson was not specifically targetted by ManU . Liverpool also specifically targetted Evans, and the Evans / Houillier partnership, both of which were not successful and were changed because of that. Newcastle United also specifically targetted Bobby Robson who stayed manager for 5 years because he did well and not because it was a 5 year plan . Facts. And things change quickly in football, another reason why "5 year plans" are an utter load of shite. 138433[/snapback] What do you mean ManU didn't "specifically" target Ferguson? And how did Liverpool "specifically" target Evans in comparison? How did we "specifically" target Robson and not Souness? Because he was (relatively) succesfull, in retrospect? Are you making up your "facts" to suit your argument? Surely not. The point is, we have a serial history of sacking managers at the worst possible times - i.e. at the start of the season. EVERYBODY knows this. No other club comes close to us. It wouldn't surprise me one iota if the same happens to Roeder next season if he starts badly. We don't plan, and that is one of the reasons we fail. Not fact, just opinion, but there you go. Btw, might I add that I agree the reason you keep a manager is because he does well and not part of a 5 year plan (when has anyone other than yourself mentioned that?), but clubs with foresight plan their next manager when things aren't going well, or at least make sound choices when they sack him. We don't.

Used to think you were one of the better posters because you didn't post jibbering shite. I'll answer it anyway. I have almost every Mag - ever. A quick browse through those during Gullits time, along with the video footage of the day he joined the club, proves the utter futility of your comments. See above. Also 1 cup more than us, [along with leaving a team that went on to more] which we would have been delighted to win in that final. Correct or not ? For the record, I wasn't too bothered about Gullit because I wasn't impressed by all the "let me entertain you" crap. And never have been. I did however, hope he would repeat his FA Cup success, being a trophy winner that according to some "we don't appoint" 138391[/snapback] Well, i've given up on getting much that's sensible out of you a while ago. Shame, i think it's good when people have opposing views, one can learn. People's mind's should have a degree of fluidity to their thinking, not you though. Pure dogma, massive generalisations of other people's opinions, failure to even entertain other's point of view and glimpses of a political outlook that borders on bigotry. You're fast becoming proof that age and wisdom have no correlation. 138419[/snapback] massively hypocritical in view of the first line of your last post, which was the point of my reply. Fact also is, whether you choose to re-write history or not, the vast majority of the clubs support was happy with Gullit at the time. Unless you weren't there to see for yourself of course. 138422[/snapback] So Leazes, do you think it's right to appoint and sack managers purely on the basis of the fan's views at that time? 138424[/snapback] I'd really like an answer to this, as it's clearly Shepherd's mindset.

Used to think you were one of the better posters because you didn't post jibbering shite. I'll answer it anyway. I have almost every Mag - ever. A quick browse through those during Gullits time, along with the video footage of the day he joined the club, proves the utter futility of your comments. See above. Also 1 cup more than us, [along with leaving a team that went on to more] which we would have been delighted to win in that final. Correct or not ? For the record, I wasn't too bothered about Gullit because I wasn't impressed by all the "let me entertain you" crap. And never have been. I did however, hope he would repeat his FA Cup success, being a trophy winner that according to some "we don't appoint" 138391[/snapback] Well, i've given up on getting much that's sensible out of you a while ago. Shame, i think it's good when people have opposing views, one can learn. People's mind's should have a degree of fluidity to their thinking, not you though. Pure dogma, massive generalisations of other people's opinions, failure to even entertain other's point of view and glimpses of a political outlook that borders on bigotry. You're fast becoming proof that age and wisdom have no correlation. 138419[/snapback] One person does not constitute proof.

Do they even have any traffic laws in Peru? Hands of our Nobby!

Well Leazes, you have failed to answer any of my points regarding the timing of the dismissal of managers and how NUFC compares to other (successful) clubs. I assume it's because you know it's indefensible.

But you primarily support a non-league side? Wouldn't have thought you'd been bothered about watching quality players.

But they didn't come and Roeder got West Ham relegated. Oh joy.

yep. but the Guardian is shit 138343[/snapback]

You see Alex, I'm not defending Shepherd for no reason, but this is the sort of thing that I will answer in his defence. You say on one hand that the club should input a "long term strategy" then dismiss the current appointment as not being a long term strategy. If the club really think Shearer is top quality management material then this appointment of Roeder with a view to Shearer being his right hand man in a year or two with long term succession, is PRECISELY a long term plan or strategy. Correct ? Whether it is the "right" man, we don't know. The simple fact is, the whole idea is bollocks. Dalglish would still be here now if he had been the right man, and by the same token we were not going to keep him after 18 months simply there was 3 and a half years of the "5 year plan" left. And with his CV, a hell of a lot of people thought he was the "right" man. The same will happen to Roeder, Shearer of whoever. If they stay at the club for 5 years or more, its because they are winning. Simple as that. The most successful clubs don't have a long term strategy at all. They just appoint a manager who wins games so stays. Bruce Rioch lasted a year at Arsenal. What happened to that long term plan ? Ditto Evans at Liverpool, and they won the ahem, League Cup. And I don't mean YOU specifically. 138341[/snapback] The more successful clubs PLAN replacing their present managers if they are not considered successful enough. Liverpool replacing Houlier with Benitez in the SUMMER of 2004 is a classic example of this (despite Houlier's success). If you can't see this then what's the point of the discussion? You might argue that Shepherd is planning ahead to install Shearer at the club - this might well be true but it would be the first time he has, and personally I have major misgivings in the logic of continuing with a second rate manager in the meantime who knows he is on borrowed time and his replacement is already planned. There has to be some reason why other clubs of similar size to us are successful and we are not. I think it's because of the board - you seemingly put it down to luck or gypsie curses.

I'm jealous as fuck tbh.

And why would Henry staying be fantastic? For NUFC it will be an absolute disaster. We need to grab 4th place - Arsenal will be a lot more difficult to catch with Henry weighing in with 20+ goals next season. Yes, yes he's good to watch but so fuck - do you want CL or not? 138277[/snapback] What UM said teebeeaitch. 138307[/snapback] Disregarding any implications for NUFC, I'm struggling to think how anyone but an Arsenal fan could regard it as fantastic news? Personally, I reckon he's made a mistake (if true), but then it happens to the best (e.g. Shearer).

Absolutely. But then, I sense this boards doesn't give a fuck about success as long as the money is coming in. A false economy, obviously, but then I suspect none of them are gifted with intelligence.