Renton

You are completely unable to grasp the fact that everyone makes mistakes in football Alex. 136716[/snapback] There are mistakes, then there are gargantuan fuck-ups. Only an idiot or an eternal optimist would have thought that Souness's tenure would have been anything other than the latter. 136724[/snapback] Strange that such a brilliant board of directors thought fit to appoint him as well eh ? Along with all of those people who backed his changes, therefore backing the board appointing him ... of only myself, Renton, HTL and only one or two others said would be disastrous. 136731[/snapback] Who backed Souness then eh? All those people my arse. I never wanted him and I'd love to see you find one little bit of support for him from me. To be honest, I think the general mood was one of stunned, silent, apathy; as was obvious from the crowd at the matches. Plus, as has been pointed out many times, the only person who backed him who mattered was Shepherd. 136737[/snapback] From my memory few, if any, people were happy with the appointment. Even Gemmill only supported him by successfully talking himself into the notion that we needed a "no nonsense" manager, and then foolishly sticking to his guns when it was obviously not working. And iirc, HTL gave Souness a fair old chance before turning on him too. But as you say, the relevance of this in somehow exonerating Shepherd of blame is lost on me. It was an idiotic appointment, and what type of person makes an idiotic appointment? An idiot, surely. This time round I don't think any of us are as worried with the appointment, but for some us there is still a strong sense of disappointment.

You are completely unable to grasp the fact that everyone makes mistakes in football Alex. 136716[/snapback] There are mistakes, then there are gargantuan fuck-ups. Only an idiot or an eternal optimist would have thought that Souness's tenure would have been anything other than the latter. 136724[/snapback] Hiring Souness is incompetence on the scale equivalent to me deleting half my works database. Should this happen, I'd be out like a shot. Besides, Souness is not the only fuck up, is he? The list is endless.

At least it would scare the pidgeons away and stay shit free.

Ok, for that scenario I already say that in that case Shepherd will have been (grammar?) very lucky. Shepherd will deserve praise for being brave enough for just sticking to an easy option instead of coming up with a ingenious masterplan. 136706[/snapback] I'm not trying to pointscore, or type good grammar on an internet message board, just stating what I hope will happen, and accepting the clubs decision for whatever reason. We all know its possible the club may have its hands tied financially, well most of us do apart from those who stupidly think we should carry on throwing money around like there is no tomorrow ie those who backed the changes instigated by Souness which have put us in this position. If Robert and Bellamy were still at the club, and we had not needlessly bought the heartless Spanish twat, we would now be 2 players and 9m quid better off for starters. 136713[/snapback] By far the most important investment in a club is the manager though - this should have been made the priority by a country mile. Roeder at least seems like a cheap option - not the position you should be making cost savings, I fear.

Daglish wasn't given enough time to be successful though, wouldn't you agree? He was sacked far too early and, therefore, wasn't given the necessary backing imo. EDIT: Totally agree with SLP's and Zico's sentiments too. 136665[/snapback] Possibly. The singing of "attack attack attack" was one of the worst things ever sang at a Cup Final by any fans anywhere, have you forgotten ? We hoped in the summer he [Dalglish] would take heed but when he didn't, he had to go. I am not one who just wants to be entertained by showboaters like Arsprilla, never have been, and never will be. The contrast with the Keegan years was what brought it on. Those who do think they put entertainment before winning....well if we had won tht day and bored the arse off the whole world would anybody have gave a damn ? It would also, obviously, have prolonged Dalglish managership, boring or not. And of course the appointment of Gullit was made because he was the opposite of Dalglish, but he was still a trophy winner and we all thought or at least hoped he could do the same for us. Neither of these managers had the heart for the club, and that is why they didn't succeed and were sacked when it became obvious. If I was forced to say one of them could have been given longer it would have been Dalglish. By "backing", I meant financial backing and freedom to run the team the way they liked Alex, you know that. Which they did. Gullit acknowledged that when he took responsibility and walked away without compensation. A bigger man than Souness for that. 136709[/snapback] Of course, there is ample anecdotal evidence to suggest Shepherd does meddle in the affairs of his managers, and this is problematic. Glenn Roeder I feel will not be strong enough to stand up to him, although I admit this is pure specualtion on my side.

I judge him on his deeds not his words. Not on the bench against Chelsea? Mysterious pains doctors can't find a cause for? Not at Shearer's testimonial but spotted walking around Chester race course the next day? Aye, he's really committed. Read his autobiography and maybe you will see what a selfish money orientated individual he really is. And say what you like, but at least Bellamy has passion.

Because you'll fucking well need it 136576[/snapback] Miserable bastard 136598[/snapback] Oh aye Obviously I wish him all the best, but the more I think about it, the more I think he's a cheap, lazy, uninspired, short-term appointment. I'll be delighted if he proves me wrong. 136616[/snapback] If this is so, then its down to the reckless excesses and poor judgement of the last manager in recommending his sales and buys to the board 136642[/snapback] If this is so, it's at least partly down to Shepherd, on both counts. 136643[/snapback] Hindsight. Nobody always goes forwards. There are clubs that have done better than us that have gone further backwards when they have changed their boards or managers, or both. 136646[/snapback] I'm not saying they do always go forward, you're employing hindsight to blame Souness though, is there some reason why I can't do the same to (quite rightly) apportion at least some of the blame to Shepherd? 136656[/snapback] I'm not using hindsight to blame Souness. I despised him and thought he was a shit manager when he was at Rangers and I was working in Jockland. You can blame Shepherd if you like, but I didn't see you blaming him when we won in Rotterdam. And if Roeder does well, ie gets into europe/wins a cup/stablises the club during a time of financial accountability then I look forward to the comments you will make, which I'll be watching with interest. 136695[/snapback] What if he does badly? What then for Shepherd?

"London Bridge is falling down" ? 136687[/snapback] It actually works!

Really? 136679[/snapback] He'd do Jade Goodey (in one of his 'weaker moments') iirc. 136684[/snapback] Jesus wept! I'm making a mental note of that. Jade Goody!

He hasn't earned it yet. 136613[/snapback] Why am I reminded of Tom Hanks? 136682[/snapback] Don't know. I'm reminded of the Smiths.

Really?

Actually yri. I'm sure Solano played in the '98 final and a few games before. 136672[/snapback] Solano didn't play in the 98 cup final, he was signed the summer after I think. 136676[/snapback] Must be thinking of '99 then? Oh well serves me right for being a pedant.

Actually yri. I'm sure Solano played in the '98 final and a few games before.

Daglish wasn't given enough time to be successful though, wouldn't you agree? He was sacked far too early and, therefore, wasn't given the necessary backing imo. EDIT: Totally agree with SLP's and Zico's sentiments too. 136665[/snapback] The timing of his sacking was insane and has been repeated several times since. No-one can dispute or defend that. Well, apart from LM.

I hate the idea of him hanging around in the background. Personally, I reckon he might have what it takes so why not just get it over with and employ him now? If he succeeds, great, if not, move on, once and for all. At the moment the Shearer skeptics are right to question his role in holding the club back, and that I hate to see.

You fucking relish wallowing in this shit, don't you? 136652[/snapback] Not guilty m'lud. I would love to be jubilant once in a while, but this club makes it damn hard. At least I'm not a mackem.

Who was that then? 136648[/snapback] Pay me 3 million quid a year and I'll tell you. Not Roeder, you can have that for free.

Don't use your heart LM, think objectively. This is based on a limited run when he has been a caretaker. Before that, would anyone seriously contemplate him? Would Liverpool or ManU hire a man with such a sketchy record? Of course not. We are going to drift for at least another year. We had the chance to hire a proven manager right for the club, who could have made some real fundamental difference to our playing staff and set up, but we have blown it yet again. Mid-table mediocrity!

Most the men look like they're going to first communion.

He hasn't earned it yet. 136613[/snapback] Still needs our support man 136614[/snapback] If the manager is relying on songs to boost his confidence to effectively manage the team, then God help us. I reckon the chanting of his name at the Chelsea game helped secure his appointment, something I'm far from happy about. I wish him well, obviously, but you should have a good reason to single out individuals for praise in songs imo. 136627[/snapback] Like i said he is by no means my first choice but he's here now and i'll be backing him, although a 2 year contract isn't exactly inspiring 136634[/snapback] Fair enough. It's desperately important he gets off to a good start though. When does the fixture list come out anyone?

He put himself in that position, by waiting so long to appoint someone and by being such a twat no-one else wanted the job (speculation). Newcastle fans are easily pleased yet again it seems.

He hasn't earned it yet. 136613[/snapback] Still needs our support man 136614[/snapback] If the manager is relying on songs to boost his confidence to effectively manage the team, then God help us. I reckon the chanting of his name at the Chelsea game helped secure his appointment, something I'm far from happy about. I wish him well, obviously, but you should have a good reason to single out individuals for praise in songs imo.

Watford finish 7th, next year are relegated. West Ham finish 7th, next year are relagated. Newcastle finish 7th....... Now I don't believe for one minute that we will be relegated, but there is nothing to suggest Roeder is the man to turn us round in the long term. I wish him luck, because as has been said, he needs it. The question is, has Roeder been appointed because he is the cheap option, he is holding the job for Shearer, or in fact because no-one half decent wants to be at our club because of Shepherd? Either way, I think we need a change of chairman to move forward.

He hasn't earned it yet.

strange I thought the Eurpoean Champions were after him. 136408[/snapback] As they are now with Bellamy apparently. 136422[/snapback] Apparently they are. Who would choose between Owen and Bellamy ? 136439[/snapback] Owen. 136538[/snapback] Bellamy tbh. Owen's attitude to us has pissed me off more than Bellamy's "bad boy" antics and whinging. It's obvious he can't even be arsed to play for us.