Renton

Hamza found guilty I see. Good.

What did you think of the cartoons by the way? Offensive or not? 90144[/snapback] I know that was directed at Leazes, but I didn't personally find the one you linked to offensive at all. I interpreted it meant that some islamic fundamentalists have hijacked the religion, which is what I think was intended, and subsequently has obviously been proved correct! 90154[/snapback] But the portrayal of the prophet is offensive to most Muslims, I'm asking whether it's offensive, not whether you or LM find it personally offensive, given neither of you are Muslims. 90158[/snapback] I can appreciate it might be offensive to muslims, but frankly I don't care. Lots of things offend me, and I have learned to live with them (just ). The vast majority of these protesters world-wide probably haven't even seen them, and they're certainly not being forced to see them.

What did you think of the cartoons by the way? Offensive or not? 90144[/snapback] I know that was directed at Leazes, but I didn't personally find the one you linked to offensive at all. I interpreted it meant that some islamic fundamentalists have hijacked the religion, which is what I think was intended, and subsequently has obviously been proved correct!

Deliberately being ironic?

That's very brave of you. 90131[/snapback] Thankyou. I know it's easy for me to say, it's easy to say anything when you're not involved personally, for instance advocate our soldiers go off to war in Iraq. But your point and Alex's is taken. I intend to show my solidarity by eating lots of Danish dairy pordicts though from now on. Mmmmmm, Danone.

He shouldn't have to but he may well do in the interests of his country's economy, it's called diplomacy. 90114[/snapback] A false aoplogy is worse than none at all. There's an important point at stake here, and I think he should stick by his guns (no pun intended), as should our politicians. Muslims have to realise that being offended is an intrinsic part of freedom, if they don't like it they should move to an islamic country. If he apologises, where does it end? 90118[/snapback] I'm saying he shouldn't have to, but economic realities dictate he may well choose to do so. I don't think he should either though, but that's not the way the world works, haven't you just had a go at Leazes for seeing everything in terms of black and white? 90123[/snapback] I agree it's not black and white, I just personally think this stand is worth making whatever the consequences, to avoid a very dangerous precedent being set, if nothing else. It's a shame the Danish economy might suffer, but it's a price worth paying imo.

He shouldn't have to but he may well do in the interests of his country's economy, it's called diplomacy. 90114[/snapback] A false aoplogy is worse than none at all. There's an important point at stake here, and I think he should stick by his guns (no pun intended), as should our politicians. Muslims have to realise that being offended is an intrinsic part of freedom, if they don't like it they should move to an islamic country. If he apologises, where does it end?

You see, what's that supposed to mean? 90101[/snapback] To spell it out for you Muslims will be embarrased by one of their temporary "hero's" being found out to be a convicted drug dealer - wouldn't you be? People will not wish to be associated with such people.............. simple really 90111[/snapback] He's obviously a prislam convert - British prisons are breeding grounds for muslim fundamentalism. Does islam not accept repentance? If so, I still don't see your point really.

Alex, from what I understand the problem started when a group of Danish Imams publicised the cartoons and actively stoked up fervour in the middle east. By the time it was reported here, it was already a significant international news event; I don't think the BBC bears any responsibility at all. Indeed the media here have refrained from publishing the cartoons. 90100[/snapback] The Beeb actually did show the cartoons on the news initially then dropped them more out of fear of repraisal than out of respect though. I take your point about it already being an international event though. Incidentally, I haven't got a Scooby what point Rob's trying to make either. 90107[/snapback] The first time I saw it was from a link provided by you. Death to Alex!

You see, what's that supposed to mean?

Alex, from what I understand the problem started when a group of Danish Imams publicised the cartoons and actively stoked up fervour in the middle east. By the time it was reported here, it was already a significant international news event; I don't think the BBC bears any responsibility at all. Indeed the media here have refrained from publishing the cartoons. LM, you're problem has always been you see the world in black and white and only offer simplistic solutions that wouldn't work in the real world. Don't assume that because I agree that action needs to be taken against these protesters (and I mean action within the frame of both our own and international law) I agree with your viewpoints or I'm coming towards your point of view in any way. I'm not, the world according to Leazes is a frightening place imo. I have noticed that Rob's posts are increasingly making less sense however, to the extent I now have almost no idea what he's talking about.

Rob, that's bullshit. Nice to know you haven't paid any notice to what I've said in this or other threads. I am way to the left of the political spectrum and have often stated I am against capital punishment, or draconian measures such as castration, mutilation foe criminals etc. I tend to agree with LM on football matters only. However, that doesn't mean I think the police should stand by and let these people get away with these "protests", and I'm sure the majority of sane people agree. Recently, your posts have been abysmal to be honest. For starters, you refuse to admit you are wrong on factual matters when you have been shown to be quite clearly, citing your extensive personal knowledge and experience over studies published by experts ffs. Then there is this thread; you back track so much it is actually impossible to know what you believe, and you demonstrate clearly you have a defective memory. And that's not to mention coming out with obvious bull shit like Syrians aren't muslims. What do you actually believe in Rob?

Who are you talking to - me or the islamic protesters?

Do these people not make you angry Rob?

The simple outcome of being brainwashed into believing your religion is unquestionably right and everyone who doesn't agree is an infidel who has no right to life. Canny people.

The moderate muslims have to make themselves more vocal in their disapproval I think. Also, they should be willing to "grass" the nutters up to authorities. However, sometimes I get the feeling even the moderates have strong sympathies with the fundamentalists. I hope they prove me wrong.

Do you actually go to games though?

So you're saying you're a muslim (as Syrians most definitely are islamic) and what exactly? I don't think you agree with me at all - I don't think this situation should be tolerated. At the very least, I would like to see those protesters in London locked up under incitement laws, and I think it is our duty to eat extra portions of danish bacon and dairy goods. Which I'm going to do now for brunch. 89309[/snapback] So peolple should be locked up for using their democratic right to protest about something they find offensive? 89523[/snapback] No, for inciting hatred. Because that's what it is. Edit: FYI SpongeBob. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4683002.stm

Right, that is certainly contradictory to what I know and have seen on the news lately. Fancy backing it up with a link Rob, or is it another point we are just going to have to trust on your vast wordly experience? Who mentioned the government btw, and how is that relevant?

So you're saying you're a muslim (as Syrians most definitely are islamic) and what exactly? I don't think you agree with me at all - I don't think this situation should be tolerated. At the very least, I would like to see those protesters in London locked up under incitement laws, and I think it is our duty to eat extra portions of danish bacon and dairy goods. Which I'm going to do now for brunch.

As I'm sure you are aware I am usually well to the left of the political spectrum on these matters, pretty much a sandalista by some people's accounts. But after reading about this case, I have to pull my head out of the sand and think enough is enough. How is it OK for arabic press to insult and defile judaism, and christianity to a lesser extent, and at the same time go into uproar about a few cartoons? How is acceptable to allow these fundamental islamists to go around with placards in London saying "death to the infidels" or the ones below? Why are our politicians defending these people? Because they are too gutless to face up to them? Now you will say that these are just a few lunatics on the fringes, and should be ignored. I really want to believe that is true, but increasingly I have an uneasy feeling something terrible is going to kick off. Belief in Islam requires you to give complete unquestioning obedience to Allah; these people are brain washed from the moment they are born. Their faith does not allow any criticism whatsoever, and anyone who dares is threatened with death, or actually murdered as we saw in Holland. They cannot be reasoned with on any level. One thing is for sure, those cartoons have done more for the BNP than years of campaigning, and this deeply worrys me. Something needs to be done before it's too late.

Quake 4 needs quite a powerful PC to run smoothly. Ideally a gig of ram and a good graphics card etc. Also I know some people have had problems installing recent activision games due to anti-piracy measures. For instance, it may object to you having a virtual drive (although I've been OK on that score). A bit o/t, but one friend I know couldn't get the movies to load because his DVD drivers were incompatible, and there was nothing he could do about it - he couldn't even get a refund. So he had to download it illegally and play it with a crack - goes to show how stupid the antipiracy measures can be. But tbh, I wouldn't bother. I bought Q4 weeks ago and have all but given up on it because it's so derivative and generic. Really, really, boring! Edit: looking again at your specs, you have virtually no chance running the game I'm afraid. The minimum graphics card you will need will be geforce 4 (not an MX variety) or above with 128 Mb + (older cards than this will be incompatible). I reckon you'll need to spend at least a couple of hundred quid to get this game running at all, but it will still look shit....

Denmark is bemused apparently. So am I. What a ridiculous over-reaction - boycotting an entire nation because of a few cartoons. It's so pathetic it's unreal, and is yet more evidence that the free west cannot accomodate this oppressive religion. I'm with Leazes on this one and think a stand needs to be made. No apologies should be made because none are called for. If we start censoring ourselves for the sake of risking upsetting a few muslims, where will it end? The same applies to any religion though, such as those sikhs in Birmingham or the religious right in the USA. Freedom of speech must prevail.

Well no, I just meant plain old fashioned islam. Not at all like the French (btw, haven't McDonalds in London been trashed by anti-capitalism riots).

Come on man, quit comparing the French with the nation of islam! Not comparable. Muslims feel threatened by free speech, that's the conclusion I am gathering. Well, without wanting to sound like Enoch Powell, if they don't like it, they can lump it imo. It's about the only thing I am willing to fight for, even die for! I'd rather not mind.