Renton

Enjoy Burton marra. Oh I did!

Oh ffs, give it a rest man.

Tories say by elections don't predict anything.

She must have fucking severe dyslexia if she can't tell the difference between letters and numbers. Either that or she's pissed again.

I think there are now three previous tory leaders saying he should resign - Major, Haigh, and now Howard. He's clearly not going anywhere still though. On the plus side, the longer he stays, the more he screws their party. On the flip side, the longer he stays, the more he screws the country; 🤷‍♂️

This video has aged well. Literally the opposite of EVERYTHING that was promised has happened!

Dartford tunnel, fish fingers, and cheese. Gawd bless Brexit and Victorian Pencil!

It's blocked by my browser (Chrome).

Well PR hasn't even entered the arena as a thing yet, but it would definitely be weaponised by the tories. I think a coalition is the only chance of getting it through, although you have to think it wouldn't pass a referendum anyway. I simply don't understand why people don't understand we don't even live in a real democracy without it. So I despair there a bit. But anyway, I say you need to wait for the manifesto. You know that this party is slightly left of centre, and I would expect policies built around that axis, which personally suits me, as I was happy under Blair. If you can't live with that, then so be it, but once again it outlines the importance of PR ove EU membership. Every vote should count and you should have the right to be represented.

I fully agree with you about the EU and "the dream". I had an EU flag under my avatar when I first started posting here for that reason (that option has disappeared now). I am an absolute europhile, but now I believe the UK only damages the project, hence I want a more peripheral role. Change has to come from within, in this case reform of our antiquated adverserial FPTP system imo. Nothing really good will happen whilst we retain this. Same applies for the US btw. Anyway, I guess we're on the same page, just have different emotional attachments.

I meant the following claim, that Labour MPs are against it. I just don't think that's true.

Well you're wrong. EU membership could be reversed again with FPTP. So PR is the necessary first step to becoming a mature democracy which would stop us ever having shit like this again, and would also massively bolster our chances of acceptance into the EU community. But you know, I've been banging out about it for 30 years, bot all happens, despite my impression most Labour MPs privately back it.

As you say, makes no difference to us voters in safe seats anyway. I fully agree PR is the most important thing, I'd rank my wants as: 1) Introduction of PR. 2) Full scottish devo and English federalisation. 3) Rejoining EU/EFTA, or gaining access to EEA (and FoM). Do our objectives align?

Go on then, justify that claim.

I'd be very surprised if there aren't a lot of good policies locked in a vault. No point allowing the tories to steal them which they have done countless times. Your issue is that a forthright approach to rejoining the EU won't be one of them. But I don't even think the LDs support this now. So what are you going to do?

Only to an extent. You have to have faith the leader is intelligent and competent enough to implement his policies. I never did with Corbyn.

I'll be honest, I've always hated him. Spent his entire career spouting bollocks from the sidelines and voting againsy his own government. An intellectual pygmy and long-term brexiter. Hardly fit to be an MP let alone leader of the Labour party. I still voted for him, twice. That's what grown ups have to do sometimes.

Reeves isn't great and isn't a contender. For once I agree with Gemmill and think a Streeting/Nandy combo could be superb if it comes to it. Get the king of the north back too.

Well obviously the problem the tories have got is the purge Johnson took has now bitten them on the arse. There are no good sucessors there, in the cabinet at least. I would rank the top 10 on the labour benches above theior best candidate, which is one reason I'm fairly sanguine about Starmer's fate.

Yeah, I understand that. Starmer is way too cautious for me. But honestly, I think a lot of these things will improve once they're in power, and the bigger their majority, the more they can do (or if a coalition PR referendum will be on the cards). I'd judge them then. If Labour can achieve what Lammy set out yesterday, which is not nothing, that would be the first step to rejoining the EEA (as I think you know, I don't personally believe we should rejoin the EU unless we radically change as a country, and I don't think that will happen). It's not ideal, but it's where we are.

Wasn't it the biggest swing since Blair vs. Major?

So no individual said this, it's really just your projection? Alright.

There is one element to this I think your are forgetting or dismissing. We're used to arguing in a bubble in this country, scarcely even acknowledging their are third parties in all this, namely the EU and EFTA. We can't just do a 180 and decide to rejoin, there is absolutely no guarantee every EU state would agree to this and indeed I don't think France would for one. EFTA countries have already ruled out membership I believe and as far as I know there is no other way of accessing the EEA (SM). So for pragmatic reasons alone, I believe we would have to tread slowly and become trusted again within the frameworks of the current deal before jrejoining was ever a possibility. We would also require a referendum with a super majority imo. We are miles from that. The bar isn't being lowered, it si being incrementally raised by labour. The bar will only be lowered with another tory victory which would be catastrophic. By all means, don't vote for Labour if you can't hold your nose to the present situation, but then don't complain about the result. Still waiting for @NJS to show me when Blair said there was no place for unions in the 21st century btw.

Have you got a link to that Blair quote? I don't remember it ans can't find anything remotely resembling it on Google? Those polls surprise me, they're different to all the ones I've seen. I notice they're all online, is that normal? Worth noting BTW that whilst Mike Lynch is rightly getting a lot of credit at the moment, he is a brexiter so I personally question his judgement and motives.