***Official Mike Ashley Euro express thread***

[Christmas Tree 4669]

Well barring a disaster of epic proportions we will be playing in Europe, which competition is yet to be decided but if the Spurs collapse continues and Arsenal beat Chelsea its in our hands. Who would have thought that at the beginning of the campaign?

 

We have one of the best attacks in the league and in Tiote and Cabaye one of the best midfield partnerships, oh and not to mention the best Keeper too. If we get champions league I would like to think it will be an incentive for our best players to stay although no one(with maybe a few exceptions) can doubt if City or another club with untold riches come knocking with 20,30 mil offers and 150 grand a week contracts are offered then heads will get turned, that's a fact which doesn't make us a selling club or on the same scale as Bolton or West Brom.

 

I hope the team stays together and we add some more quality and continue to push on, its hard to believe this is only the second season back in the premiership and I think Pardew is doing a great job and even Ashley has to be given some credit. I hope he's got some passion back and this season has proven we can compete even with modest investment in the RIGHT players.

 

I think this (if you are talking about Ashley) can not be understated.

 

It appears that he does have his passion back and you also have to note that Sports Direct is going from strength to strength.

 

All round (even personally) everything seems to be going right for him which can only be very good news for us.

 

The fact that we are now doing so well and getting into Europe adds even more exposure to the Sports Direct brand. This in itself might just make his ownership more stable and less likely to selling us to the first money man who comes along.

[rogerbarton 24]

With regards the Champions League push, Chelsea have a tough run in themselves in the PL - trips to Arsenal and Liverpool (who'll be fired up as always against them and want to prove something) plus a game against ourselves and a potentially tricky one on the final day of the season against a Blackburn side who I imagine will be fighting for survival. Arsenal's result last night only throws it wider open. I think it's there for the taking and we could be the frontrunners after the weekend's games!

[Baggio 0]

With regards the Champions League push, Chelsea have a tough run in themselves in the PL - trips to Arsenal and Liverpool (who'll be fired up as always against them and want to prove something) plus a game against ourselves and a potentially tricky one on the final day of the season against a Blackburn side who I imagine will be fighting for survival. Arsenal's result last night only throws it wider open. I think it's there for the taking and we could be the frontrunners after the weekend's games!

 

If Man Utd can win the title at Eastlands it will give us a game against a team with nothing to play for rather than a shot at the league too.

 

They will be getting my support that night.

[Alex 34717]

It's absolutely mental that, with only a handful of games left, we're still in with a shout of 3rd place. That's what football is all about to me (in lieu of actually winning something), i.e. having something to play for (and not just survival) at the business end of the season. It's fantastic.

[trophyshy 7066]

It's absolutely mental that, with only a handful of games left, we're still in with a shout of 3rd place. That's what football is all about to me (in lieu of actually winning something), i.e. having something to play for (and not just survival) at the business end of the season. It's fantastic.

 

Couldn't agree more. What a fucking fantastic season this has been.

[Tom 14011]

Welcome to the board mate!

[Alex 34717]

Cheers, Tom.

[Davey Dave 0]

Welcome to the board. Do not feed the leazes.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

It's absolutely mental that, with only a handful of games left, we're still in with a shout of 3rd place. That's what football is all about to me (in lieu of actually winning something), i.e. having something to play for (and not just survival) at the business end of the season. It's fantastic.

 

Absofuckinglutely!

 

and welcome to the asylum .

Edited April 17, 2012 by Christmas Tree

[LeazesMag 0]

Well barring a disaster of epic proportions we will be playing in Europe, which competition is yet to be decided but if the Spurs collapse continues and Arsenal beat Chelsea its in our hands. Who would have thought that at the beginning of the campaign?

 

We have one of the best attacks in the league and in Tiote and Cabaye one of the best midfield partnerships, oh and not to mention the best Keeper too. If we get champions league I would like to think it will be an incentive for our best players to stay although no one(with maybe a few exceptions) can doubt if City or another club with untold riches come knocking with 20,30 mil offers and 150 grand a week contracts are offered then heads will get turned, that's a fact which doesn't make us a selling club or on the same scale as Bolton or West Brom.

 

I hope the team stays together and we add some more quality and continue to push on, its hard to believe this is only the second season back in the premiership and I think Pardew is doing a great job and even Ashley has to be given some credit. I hope he's got some passion back and this season has proven we can compete even with modest investment in the RIGHT players.

 

hope and think are 2 totally different issues.

 

I hope he keeps the team together too ........

[Baggio 0]

We're on the same points now as Man City were after 33 games last season.

[ChezGiven 0]

 

...but have always been willing to give the owner the benefit of the doubt in his slow build approach, whenever he has disappointed you. I don't think he had earned that. He has now.

 

It was not a question of anyone earning anything, my view was based on analysing his actions post relegation and predicting his intentions on that basis.

 

You and Parky are so easy to wind up on this topic, its beyond funny. One small comment about it being ironic all this discussion was in Baggio's thread and you and Parky jump all over it, my jibes must have been chewing away at you . No one likes being wrong and no one likes it being repeatedly being pointed out. If you dont get i'm just having a laugh with it then i do apologise, as it must be fucking annoying.

 

So i'll stop from now on. Lets all look forward together, critically and optimistically.

[Happy Face 29]

I was just having a laugh with you too until your post 3070 went all in depth and deserved a serious response.

 

I've got no qualms about being wrong on something or taking the piss out of myself for it....or having the piss taken out of me for it. But no-one has actually pointed out any arguments or posts that were wrong from me or Parky. I had to bring up the West Brom comparison as something I recall getting wrong myself.

 

It can be annoying to hear the "team negative" blanket term applied not because of any basis in truth and not because it's being applied to me, but because that soundbite has simplified a lot of nuanced discussion from the likes of PP, Craig, Alex, Mancy, Tom, Fish, Parky etc and lazily assumes all those views were wrong without any examination.

[LeazesMag 0]

...but have always been willing to give the owner the benefit of the doubt in his slow build approach, whenever he has disappointed you. I don't think he had earned that. He has now.

 

It was not a question of anyone earning anything, my view was based on analysing his actions post relegation and predicting his intentions on that basis.

 

You and Parky are so easy to wind up on this topic, its beyond funny. One small comment about it being ironic all this discussion was in Baggio's thread and you and Parky jump all over it, my jibes must have been chewing away at you . No one likes being wrong and no one likes it being repeatedly being pointed out. If you dont get i'm just having a laugh with it then i do apologise, as it must be fucking annoying.

 

So i'll stop from now on. Lets all look forward together, critically and optimistically.

 

definitely. I've always been prepared to do that, personally, but it just seems like a few poor dears don't like listening to differing views, especially factual based ones.

[Renton 21032]

...but have always been willing to give the owner the benefit of the doubt in his slow build approach, whenever he has disappointed you. I don't think he had earned that. He has now.

 

It was not a question of anyone earning anything, my view was based on analysing his actions post relegation and predicting his intentions on that basis.

 

You and Parky are so easy to wind up on this topic, its beyond funny. One small comment about it being ironic all this discussion was in Baggio's thread and you and Parky jump all over it, my jibes must have been chewing away at you . No one likes being wrong and no one likes it being repeatedly being pointed out. If you dont get i'm just having a laugh with it then i do apologise, as it must be fucking annoying.

 

So i'll stop from now on. Lets all look forward together, critically and optimistically.

 

definitely. I've always been prepared to do that, personally, but it just seems like a few poor dears don't like listening to differing views, especially factual based ones.

 

You really believe you look forward optimistically? I don't recall a single optimistic post from you in half a decade regarding NUFC. Or even one when you've given the impression you've enjoyed a game for that matter, despite our amazing form (this year) and some spectacular results (this year and last).

 

Don't take this as a personal attack, I don't get on here much nowadays so I may have missed some of your optimistic posts. Could you direct me to even one of them?

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

...but have always been willing to give the owner the benefit of the doubt in his slow build approach, whenever he has disappointed you. I don't think he had earned that. He has now.

 

It was not a question of anyone earning anything, my view was based on analysing his actions post relegation and predicting his intentions on that basis.

 

You and Parky are so easy to wind up on this topic, its beyond funny. One small comment about it being ironic all this discussion was in Baggio's thread and you and Parky jump all over it, my jibes must have been chewing away at you . No one likes being wrong and no one likes it being repeatedly being pointed out. If you dont get i'm just having a laugh with it then i do apologise, as it must be fucking annoying.

 

So i'll stop from now on. Lets all look forward together, critically and optimistically.

 

You're right there, it's certainly not in the vicinity of funny. Personally I admire you as a pioneer of a new type of comedy, comedy without humour.

[PUGATRON1000 0]

I've always been prepared to do that, personally, but it just seems like a few poor dears don't like listening to differing views, especially factual based ones.

 

How can a doom/gloom prediction of the future even be considered to be factual in the here and now??

 

Now that I've said that, come here and give me a cuddle you!

[LeazesMag 0]

14th Revenue blah - Not sure of the relevance but what happened to it is it declined for ages and naturally being relegated was the biggest impact. Its a no brainer. Being relegated would have a huge impact on TV money. Plus the fans being against the new ownership and not spending as much. All my assumptions of course.

 

Do we have to sell our best players? At the moment I would say in the same we that Man Utd sold their best player (an offer they could not refuse) or that we have always always said, if a players doesnt want to be here, sell him (Enrique). I would be pissed if we sold Tiote for £10M for example but if £25M came in I would have to think long and hard as that could be reinvested (like the AC money has been) to strengthen us further.

 

What about the wages eh. Outgoing (of relevance) Barton, AC, Enrique, Nolan, Campbell, Routledge. I have no idea but lets say £50K each. That is £300Kpw or £15.5M a year.

 

Incoming (of relevance). HBA, Cabaye, Ba, Marv, Obertan, Santon, Cisse using the same £50K is £350Kpw or £18M a year.

 

What sort of club spins this kind of rubbish? I think you'll find Man Utd fans are often pissed at their new ownership and debt that brought. Arsenal as said spend (nett) less than we do? How do you think they manage it? Are they not ambitious?

 

So you think we are the same as Bolton etc. Tell you what LM, I reckon all of those you name would love to be where we are right now. Not bad for a 2nd rate club eh.

 

JawD its a fact that NUFC had the 14th biggest revenues in football. Given the fact that you appear to think that despite this, the club needs to use part of money received from the sale of a player to meet normal operational requirements, does that not mean you think NUFC need to sell to survive ?

 

If you don't, at what stage do you think a club needs to do better than have the 14th biggest revenues in world football so they do not have to do this ?

 

I realise such a logical and obvious train of thought will be too much to comprehend for certain people, like the accountant, his mate the grey man and Fish to name a few.

 

Because Turnover means nothing. Turnover just tells you how much income the business has.

 

Think of it another way. Business A has a turnover of £100M and bloke B has a Turnover of £50M. Who is better off? You dont know do you. Business A generates a higher level of income, but to generate that income might cost £99M while Business B might cost £25M to generate theirs. therefore Business B is the better model (teaching to suck eggs here Im sure). But my point is that the 14th biggest revenue is/was not all that relevant. Some figures for you.

 

04/05 - 12th on 128M

05/06 - 13th on 124M

06/07 - 14th on 129M

07/08 - 17th on 125M

08/09 - 20th on 101M

09/10 - not in top 20 but <£81M - Not surprising given relegation?

10/11 - TBC but I would expect a large increase over 09/10

 

But this point about the 14th largest revenue, tbh I dont really get your point being made? Yes, I know the income has dropped and that is no surprise given the reasons said. But previously we were not profitable, we loaned the money.

 

Simply, to answer your question. do we need to sell to survive? No.

Do we need to sell to cover operational costs? No.

Do we need to sell to buy new players? Yes and No. If we can sell a player for large profit, profit that would take a long time to generate through normal trading (on shirt sales etc) then this is a quicker way to have the funds to reinvest.

 

My turn. Dont twist it or change it. No ifs but maybes. Just a simple 1) or 2).

 

Which scenario would you prefer :

 

1) Sell no players (other than those not getting a game) and invest £10M in squad for two new players (assuming 2 at £5M each or One and a free)

2) Sell one big player for £20M (not including those not getting a game) and invest £25M in Four new players (Assuming £5M each still or One £10M, Two £5M one free etc)

 

Baring in mind we need to strengthen our squad depth, more so in Europe.

 

1. Yes I know what turnover is. But it represents the size of the business, or in this case football club, and the potential of it. It reaches high levels for certain reasons, and if it starts to decline, it does that for certain reasons too.

 

2. Yes, the club was relegated. Would investment have prevented relegation ? Would keeping some players have prevented relegation, and the effect on the drop in turnover ?

 

3. If we don't need to sell to survive, why are we selling our best players and witholding large amounts of the money from the manager to help him try and give us the best team he can ? I agree with your comments about sponsorship, what has happened to the sponsors the club used to have and why have they disappeared ? How do you attract sponsors ? [i'm not asking you this out of necessity, I want to know what you think]

 

4. I would rather the club sold nobody [which I've said a few time] and put in 2 or more players straight into the team. This is the way forward for me. If they have to sell someone or someone comes in with silly money, then of course they would then need another player and I would expect to see ALL of that money again given to the manager to do the very best he can with.

 

Because we need to strengthen, because we want to move on, because we are in europe. I don't think it is acceptable to say that because we are in europe it is OK to go downwards in the league next season. We should be looking to compete on all 4 fronts ie League, FA Cup, League Cup and whatever european competition we are in.

 

I've always, always said all of this. But I hope this answers what you are asking, and you understand what I'm saying.

 

Edit. I didn't answer 1 or 2, because your figures in number 2 should add up to 30m and not 25. If you are saying we should withhold 5m quid from the manager, then my answer is option 1

Edited April 18, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Alex 34717]

Actually, fuck it. What's the point?

[Gemmill 44090]

[LeazesMag 0]

[Alex 34717]

[JawD 99]

Right LM, because of the quote function I have answered in italic and a nice green for ease!

 

1. Yes I know what turnover is. But it represents the size of the business, or in this case football club, and the potential of it. It reaches high levels for certain reasons, and if it starts to decline, it does that for certain reasons too. - I agree, though look at Arsenals turnover compared to ours and then their spending record. Turnover doesnt always relate to amount of available cash to spend on players.

 

2. Yes, the club was relegated. Would investment have prevented relegation ? Would keeping some players have prevented relegation, and the effect on the drop in turnover ? Who knows. My opinion is that we had good players, good enough to stay up. I dont think investment would have changed this. dont forget much of his opinion changed after we went down and we had to cut our cloth accordingly. He spent well on Coloccini before then etc. In my opinion, the reason we went down was complete and utter mis management. KK, CH, JFK and AS as managers in such a short period of time. No wonder we went down and morale must have been at an all time low. I think under better management the same set of players would have stayed up.

 

 

3. If we don't need to sell to survive, why are we selling our best players and witholding large amounts of the money from the manager to help him try and give us the best team he can ? I agree with your comments about sponsorship, what has happened to the sponsors the club used to have and why have they disappeared ? How do you attract sponsors ? [i'm not asking you this out of necessity, I want to know what you think] - I dont think we need to sell to survive but I do think we need to sell to push on. Its like my other question. do you want £10M to spend or £20M? by selling some on we can refresh the squad if it is done carefully. I do not think we are withholding cash from the manager as such, just spending it carefully. Yes, I would rather we replaced AC immediately but we waited for Cisse and this now looks like a good move. I woudl rather we brought in someone to replace the injured Taylor but now we waited and I hope a very good signing in the summer will again vindicate this move. As for sponsors, in that I include all corporate activity. Success is my answer. We were relegated so business left in droves. Now that we are offering more on the pitch, I expect to see our performance financially also improve. People want to be associated with good business. I went to see a friendly game at SJP a couple of years back, they were near begging me to take a box but I refused. How could I justify it? but now I would consider some corporate tickets as I can get european games and take customers who want to go again.

 

4. I would rather the club sold nobody [which I've said a few time] and put in 2 or more players straight into the team. This is the way forward for me. If they have to sell someone or someone comes in with silly money, then of course they would then need another player and I would expect to see ALL of that money again given to the manager to do the very best he can with. - I cant disagree here. This is what I would prefer. I would rather see us get rid of Best, Lovenkrands, smith, Ranger et al and bring in 2 players to go into the first team. But, if we sell Tiote for example, replace him and have another £10M to spend, I can see the sense in that for now.

 

Because we need to strengthen, because we want to move on, because we are in europe. I don't think it is acceptable to say that because we are in europe it is OK to go downwards in the league next season. We should be looking to compete on all 4 fronts ie League, FA Cup, League Cup and whatever european competition we are in. - Agreed. We must strengthen. I would hate us to get in to europe and then not try. If we get into the EL we need at least a Centre Half, Full back and Forward. If we get into the CL we need more. We do not have quality in depth and that needs addressing. That said, I think we may struggle to sustain league position next year. I think Chelsea especially and maybe Liverpool will be stronger. Top 6-7 yes, but fight for 3rd/4th again? not sure. Its a learning curve by the club again and it will be tough. I hope they have a go though.

 

I've always, always said all of this. But I hope this answers what you are asking, and you understand what I'm saying.

 

Edit. I didn't answer 1 or 2, because your figures in number 2 should add up to 30m and not 25. If you are saying we should withhold 5m quid from the manager, then my answer is option 1 - I am glad you noticed that my figures didnt add up, that was deliberate but also what I expect. I think they would keep some back to allow us to react in January without spending what we didnt have. I think they will go with option 2 to thicken out the squad.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

MaYbE i'Ll Be HaPpY wHeN wE aRe RuNnErS uP

 

[McFaul 35]

You don't have to take your clothes off, to have a good time. Oh no.