Park Life 70 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Compared to 16,000,000 the other way though. It's almost a Sophie's Choice style political problem. It doesn't matter how anyone voted they will do what's best for the 1%. They will do what's best for the 1500 corporate advocates that shadow MEP's and EU ministers...They will do what the Bilderburg meeting decided in 2015 etc... You can see already the are dragging everything out with little injections of back tracking etc... The establishment just don't have the will or inclination to respect the vote and are waiting to find ways to negate it over time and in subtle ways. If it wasn't for the lunatic fringe of 50 or so Tory MP's we would never have had the referendum in the first place. Edited September 6, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26351 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 It doesn't matter how anyone voted they will do what's best for the 1%. They will do what's best for the 1500 corporate advocates that shadow MEP's and EU ministers...They will do what the Bilderburg meeting decided in 2015 etc... Good. People are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26351 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 No, I'm saying 17,500,000 people voting in a particular way focusses your mind. Ah, so it slipped his mind. Not that he lied to the public for political gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Compared to 16,000,000 the other way though. It's almost a Sophie's Choice style political problem. Not at all. Not how it works. A win is a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34469 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 No, I'm saying 17,500,000 people voting in a particular way focusses your mind.10.7m voted for "no top down reorganisation of the NHS", "no plans to increase VAT" and "no cuts to tax credits" in the general election. Which promptly focused the shiny faced cunt's mind on reneging on all three. These people don't mean what they say. And the worst thing is that when they fail to deliver what they've said and what you want, you'll be fully behind them regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34469 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Not at all. Not how it works. A win is a win.[emoji38] Yeah you're a real winner. Well played, champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 [emoji38] Yeah you're a real winner. Well played, champ. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14585 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Not sure where you get that from. Article 50 gets pressed in Jan 17 starting the two year clock ticking. All done and dusted Jan 19. Over a year before the next election. No second ref. As for the points based system, just another bit of rhetoric from a leave campaign that was a campaign, not a government. I think the vast majority will be happy to be out of the EU and have "control" over the immigration system. I may have missed the official announcement of the date for enacting article 50....maybe because there hasn't been one yet?... Ive had a look and as you say it does seem like they're aiming for the new year, in which case Rayvins assessment is more likely to be accurate than your fairly simplistic "job done" hokum. They may tell us it's all wrapped up, and going on previous form you'll lap that up, but there will be at least a decade of shit before all the unforeseen consequences of the vote become apparent. How will we take control of immigration again then?...I'd like to hear, you being in general "right" about everything and all...what's more of a problem for you, EU or non EU? How do we limit both?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) I may have missed the official announcement of the date for enacting article 50....maybe because there hasn't been one yet?... Ive had a look and as you say it does seem like they're aiming for the new year, in which case Rayvins assessment is more likely to be accurate than your fairly simplistic "job done" hokum. They may tell us it's all wrapped up, and going on previous form you'll lap that up, but there will be at least a decade of shit before all the unforeseen consequences of the vote become apparent. How will we take control of immigration again then?...I'd like to hear, you being in general "right" about everything and all...what's more of a problem for you, EU or non EU? How do we limit both?.. I want to stress for clarity that I was referring to the amount of time it's going to take for them to go through ALL the EU laws and vote them through Parliament again - which they will have to do. Even if the laws remain the same. I'm sure the process for actually leaving will be tied up in reasonably quick fashion, or at least they'll say it has been when it happens, but I honestly think it'll be ages before everything is back into place properly in terms of legislation and process. It's going to cost a fortune in time and resources. EDIT - but otherwise broadly agree with this post. Edited September 6, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I sometimes get the impression that making the passport cover blue again would be enough to ensure a Remain win if we had a revote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 It doesn't matter how anyone voted they will do what's best for the 1%. They will do what's best for the 1500 corporate advocates that shadow MEP's and EU ministers...They will do what the Bilderburg meeting decided in 2015 etc... You can see already the are dragging everything out with little injections of back tracking etc... The establishment just don't have the will or inclination to respect the vote and are waiting to find ways to negate it over time and in subtle ways. If it wasn't for the lunatic fringe of 50 or so Tory MP's we would never have had the referendum in the first place. You say that but if it were that simple they're never have been a vote (or it would've been rigged). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) They never in their wildest dreams thought they would lose. They set in motion 'project fear' with the Scottish template and ordered the G&T's and booked flights for that IMF woman and Obama and got Mark Carney to spread some extra fear... They also completely got misled by the polls which didn't account for the shy Brexit vote. Tried to rig it didn't they but it was too late (extending deadline). When the Newcastle result came in I said to Mrs P it will be Brexit. The miscalculation is in the fact that Bremain live in Londonistan and have completely lost touch with greater England. 7% of Labour MP's are working class etc......... IMO history will show that this is the best thing that could have happened to the EU. It's the reality check the political project and post-democratic architecture needed. We will be back in it one day but it will be all the better for this moment. Edited September 6, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 But to have the level of control you suggest is completely at odds with the levels of incompetence you've just described amongst the same political elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17783 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 But to have the level of control you suggest is completely at odds with the levels of incompetence you've just described amongst the same political elite. Aye, always the way with conspiracy theories. There is no hidden elite here pulling the strings. Cameron risked the referendum to appease his own party and kippers at the last election. He didn't expect a majority and to have to go through with it, and then was over confident in winning it. The rest is history. It's a straight forward if depressing narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 I may have missed the official announcement of the date for enacting article 50....maybe because there hasn't been one yet?... Ive had a look and as you say it does seem like they're aiming for the new year, in which case Rayvins assessment is more likely to be accurate than your fairly simplistic "job done" hokum. They may tell us it's all wrapped up, and going on previous form you'll lap that up, but there will be at least a decade of shit before all the unforeseen consequences of the vote become apparent. How will we take control of immigration again then?...I'd like to hear, you being in general "right" about everything and all...what's more of a problem for you, EU or non EU? How do we limit both?.. Immigration wasn't a big issue for me during the vote. I made that perfectly clear several times. However it was a big issue for a lot of voters. We limit immigration in a few different ways. Stopping free movement from the EU and more foresight on training for what we actually need (as with nurses), would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17783 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 CT, you're talking unmitigated shit when you put any blame on the EU for nursing shortages, complete and utter horse shit. If we wanted to retain the nursing bursary and increase domestic recruitment we could, it has literally fuck all to do with the EU and Brexit won't help. However, to remedy matters will take a minimum of 5 years now. It won't happen under a Tory government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 But to have the level of control you suggest is completely at odds with the levels of incompetence you've just described amongst the same political elite. The system is continually in flux and degrades over time...You can't go against the primary law of the universe - chance. Or it just might be that the elite are pretty stupid. But we can see they've made big gains over the last couple of decades with regard to freedoms, globalization, surveillance, Corporate penetration of the state, financial disparity, neo-colonisation of assets, control of food supply and water etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17783 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 Honestly, it's amazing how so many idiots have scape goated the EU for our own internal policies. There are unfortunately millions of CTs out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Aye, always the way with conspiracy theories. There is no hidden elite here pulling the strings. Cameron risked the referendum to appease his own party and kippers at the last election. He didn't expect a majority and to have to go through with it, and then was over confident in winning it. The rest is history. It's a straight forward if depressing narrative. So how do you explain the whole of the West and its allies having practically the same laws and the same world view? None of these things have happened by chance. It's delusion to think it. The reason why corporations and finance spend so much money and time on small groups of influential people is that these people decide the broad architecture....Not for a decade for a hundred years for a thousand years...One of them even was so pumped up he wrote a book titled 'The next million years'. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1187845.The_Next_Million_Years Edited September 6, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17783 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 So how do you explain the whole of the West and its allies having practically the same laws and the same world view? None of these things have happened by chance. It's delusion to think it. We don't have the same laws for one. There are important philosophical and practical differences in law in virtually every western country, even between England and Scotland. World view? You'd have to expand what you mean. While you're at it, define who these mysterious "elite" are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 They also completely got misled by the polls which didn't account for the shy Brexit vote. The polls were pretty mixed, just with that last-minute move towards Remain (which, if anything, might have led to Lazy Remainer syndrome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) We don't have the same laws for one. There are important philosophical and practical differences in law in virtually every western country, even between England and Scotland. World view? You'd have to expand what you mean. While you're at it, define who these mysterious "elite" are. The whole idea/fantasy of the EU is that we all have the same key laws Renty....Look closely. The important laws mate not the wether you can park your bike at the station. NAFTA and other stuff is busy harmonizing Mexican/Canadian/American trade and competition architecture. TTIP is coming our way etc... The something like 50-70% of EU law that had primacy, I'd say half of that wasn't critical to the forces of darkness but hey they shuffled them over anyway. We also now know that the heads of key EU corporations were writing EU trade and business laws and had special access to core meetings. This looks all open and cushty now but they tried to deny it for ages.... http://www.ert.eu/ Edited September 6, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17783 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 BTW Parky, things generally do happen by chance. Complexity can arise from small random occurrences and often the result is inevitable. Maybe you could benefit by reading a bit about evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17783 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 The whole idea/fantasy of the EU is that we all have the same laws Renty....Look closely. EU laws are primarily regulatory. I don't see why it's a bad idea, in a globalised world, we have shared regulatory laws. The opposite in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 EU laws are primarily regulatory. I don't see why it's a bad idea, in a globalised world, we have shared regulatory laws. The opposite in fact. I personally like a lot of things about the EU...I live in it ffs! But there are blurred lines now and the reset that is happening is about a gut need to getting some power back to national architecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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