Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Funnily enough the ukip economic manifesto used to be quite left wing in places - if the leave areas are comfortable with the racism as it seems they are then ukip still has a chance if labour fail to get their act together. Aye, I definitely think they could take Labour "heartland" seats. Just really depends how enthusiastic their backers and ground forces are now that their main aim has been achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14645 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Labour leadership election utterly pointless...what's left of their vote are the ones who voted Corbyn in the first place. As for the Bullingdon bullshitters who caused this weeks car crash, neither of them will be around at the top of politics again. This pair of self serving wankers need to ask themselves if it was all worth it. Randomly This week I've been thinking this pair are from the "ruling class", impeccable top class pedigrees, but appear to be lacking even the slightest evidence of common sense. Blair went to public school but it was nothing like Eton, council estate kids in Edinburgh can get scholarships fairly easily to Fettes, my high school played rugby against them ffs,and he only went to Durham uni. I think I'm right in saying that the previous PMs going back to the mid 60s were mostly all grammar school kids who did well. Even that old witch Thatcher looks a model of pragmatism and clear thinking (ignoring her cut all decisions and policies obviously) compared the these over privileged fuck ups. The best education money can buy and we end up in this fuckin mess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17842 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) All bets are off but I'd have to at least hope, even pray, that the majority of people in the vast majority of regions would not vote UKip. They've been used as a protest vote in the past but when you look at their candidates they are in general a bunch of thick, inarticulate, fucknuts. Their manifesto is ludicrous, they have no party infrastructure. Their leader failed to get elected last GE. Oh, and they are also on the brink of splintering. If UKip ever get in power, I would think that compares with the national socialists in 1930s Germany. Funny what prolonged austerity can do to a country, eh CT? Edited June 30, 2016 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickie 0 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 All sounds very positive for you. Of course, it could go the other way, and we could see Labour implode and UKIP steal a march. Either way, I have no long term interest in being governed by the Tories, so I'll continue with quitting the country. I bet this scenario you've just painted is going to chafe for the working class though For the last few months I've been weighing up a potential move abroad for personal reasons. It has actually been on the cards for a few years but this year was always going to be when I either made the move or decided to stick it here. Have been in two minds because realistically the long term prospects of the job I have my eye on abroad wouldn't have been as good as if I carried on my current career path here. Before Friday it would have been a real agonising decision - moving abroad would essentially have been sacrificing my career to some (possibly very large) extent. Last Friday's result has basically made the decision for me - prospects here for me post-Brexit will be shite so if I end up getting the job I won't think twice about taking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 All bets are off but I'd have to at least hope, even pray, that the majority of people in the vast majority of regions would not vote UKip. They've been used as a protest vote in the past but when you look at their candidates they are in general a bunch of thick, inarticulate, fucknuts. Their manifesto is ludicrous, they have no party infrastructure. Their leader failed to get elected last GE. Oh, and they are also on the brink of splintering. If UKip ever get in power, I would think that compares with the national socialists in 1930s Germany. Funny what prolonged austerity can do to a country, eh CT? Austerity is a part of the problem as is the crash that brought it on and the Labour decision to open the doors to the Easter bloc as is the greedy 90's and a fair dose of globalism thrown in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17842 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Labour leadership election utterly pointless...what's left of their vote are the ones who voted Corbyn in the first place. As for the Bullingdon bullshitters who caused this weeks car crash, neither of them will be around at the top of politics again. This pair of self serving wankers need to ask themselves if it was all worth it. Randomly This week I've been thinking this pair are from the "ruling class", impeccable top class pedigrees, but appear to be lacking even the slightest evidence of common sense. Blair went to public school but it was nothing like Eton, council estate kids in Edinburgh can get scholarships fairly easily to Fettes, my high school played rugby against them ffs,and he only went to Durham uni. I think I'm right in saying that the previous PMs going back to the mid 60s were mostly all grammar school kids who did well. Even that old witch Thatcher looks a model of pragmatism and clear thinking (ignoring her cut all decisions and policies obviously) compared the these over privileged fuck ups. The best education money can buy and we end up in this fuckin mess.. Aye, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17842 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Austerity is a part of the problem as is the crash that brought it on and the Labour decision to open the doors to the Easter bloc as is the greedy 90's and a fair dose of globalism thrown in. No. Honestly, EU immigration is largely, not entirely but largely, a scape goat manipulated by the far right. The underlying issue is austerity and disenfranchisement. Sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30492 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Austerity is a part of the problem as is the crash that brought it on and the Labour decision to open the doors to the Easter bloc as is the greedy 90's and a fair dose of globalism thrown in. How many Tory MPs voted against allowing EU expansion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14645 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 How many Tory MPs voted against allowing EU expansion? Ask him who was the prime minister that allowed it even though they had a veto when FOM was enshrined at Maastricht in 92? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 27026 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 how europeans see brexit :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14645 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 And another thing while I'm at it..... Goves wife is a columnist at the UKs biggest selling tabloid and the worlds most widely read news website. Is that actually good for democracy or should we ask "Dacre and Murdoch"? As an ex journo himself It'll be like having Richard fuckin Littlejohn as PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 No. Honestly, EU immigration is largely, not entirely but largely, a scape goat manipulated by the far right. The underlying issue is austerity and disenfranchisement. Sound familiar? I think that's easy to say when your not affected by it. There's a lot of places that over 10 years have had a massive influx of immigrants that has changed the look and feel of their towns / services greatly. There was a town on Newsnight last night in Lincolnshire (Boston ?) that's population has increased by 11% due to migrants in the last 10 years. They did a vox pop in the high street where the immigrants were saying they faced no abuse and the locals were saying "they're al welcome here but we just can't take any more". Now I appreciate that's not replicated everywhere, but it's definitely a legitimate concern in a lot of communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 How many Tory MPs voted against allowing EU expansion? Its pretty obvious that all parties have blood on their hands over the last 40 years with regard to the working class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Ask him who was the prime minister that allowed it even though they had a veto when FOM was enshrined at Maastricht in 92? It was very manageable back then. Labour telling the country 13,000 were coming from the Easter bloc and then letting nearly 400,000 in in one year, started this particular problem. There was a chance to limit it, but they opted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14645 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 It was very manageable back then. Labour telling the country 13,000 were coming from the Easter bloc and then letting nearly 400,000 in in one year, started this particular problem. There was a chance to limit it, but they opted out. Do you think major cities would be able to run basic services and deliver construction projects without them? Ex stock broker Farage has lead people rather up the garden path on this I feel. His old mates in the city would struggle a bit without them too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14085 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Hezza: But at least he was really funny on HIGNFY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30492 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 Its pretty obvious that all parties have blood on their hands over the last 40 years with regard to the working class. Which is an entirely different and much broader point than the one you were making. Obviously Labour were in power when what you were talking about happened but the opposition didn't oppose. Blame the political elite by all means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30492 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 It was very manageable back then. Labour telling the country 13,000 were coming from the Easter bloc and then letting nearly 400,000 in in one year, started this particular problem. There was a chance to limit it, but they opted out. John Major knew it couldn't be limited, the Tories in opposition knew that too. Just like Cameron knew he couldn't when he promised otherwise. It's free movement of trade and people. All the parties knew exactly what we were signing up for and tried to hoodwink the electorate and, in particular, the voters most concerned about immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think that's easy to say when your not affected by it. There's a lot of places that over 10 years have had a massive influx of immigrants that has changed the look and feel of their towns / services greatly. There was a town on Newsnight last night in Lincolnshire (Boston ?) that's population has increased by 11% due to migrants in the last 10 years. They did a vox pop in the high street where the immigrants were saying they faced no abuse and the locals were saying "they're al welcome here but we just can't take any more". Now I appreciate that's not replicated everywhere, but it's definitely a legitimate concern in a lot of communities. The"influx" is about the same as it was 10 years ago. 600k immigrants a quarter. Net migration growth has been driven by fewer people leaving the country. Over 400k a quarter back in 2006, less than 300k more recently. Ironically, the Brexit vote might sort that out indirectly as more people look to get out of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 Do you think major cities would be able to run basic services and deliver construction projects without them? Ex stock broker Farage has lead people rather up the garden path on this I feel. His old mates in the city would struggle a bit without them too... I think this will mulled over and studied for years, but it's probably to do with managing immigration and higher wages & benefits being available to workers that are not used to such things. Add to that the dampening down of wages for lots of trades that we were not in desperate need of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 (edited) Won't happen. Tories are slick at this stuff. We'll be down to two by Thursday and then the charm offensive will begin. Strangely enough, such a big decision and is being followed through, which means the party will not even be split on Europe any more. Labour, if they ever sort this crisis, can't really oppose the Tories over Europe or they'll lose what's left of their heartlands. A bit like post 2008, labours fumblings are going to allow the Tories to set the tone for the years ahead. I draw your attention to my post immediately after the referendum: Plus the SNP in Scotland is going to have massive support now. Labour, even if they managed an unlikely revival by uniting two groups that are hacking chunks out of each other up and down social media today, won't get a look in anyway. Scotland will ultimately leave the UK, rightly, and we'll have the Tories. For....ever? I'm struggling to think of a scenario that doesn't involve right wing governments in almost perpetual control. Edited June 30, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14085 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 The"influx" is about the same as it was 10 years ago. 600k immigrants a quarter. The narrative is out there, though. Genie's never getting back in the bottle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 30, 2016 Author Share Posted June 30, 2016 John Major knew it couldn't be limited, the Tories in opposition knew that too. Just like Cameron knew he couldn't when he promised otherwise. It's free movement of trade and people. All the parties knew exactly what we were signing up for and tried to hoodwink the electorate and, in particular, the voters most concerned about immigration. Not the case Alex, there was only ourselves, Sweden and Ireland that opened the doors, all the rest had transitional controls in place. There's a very good piece on it here. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14645 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think this will mulled over and studied for years, but it's probably to do with managing immigration and higher wages & benefits being available to workers that are not used to such things. Add to that the dampening down of wages for lots of trades that we were not in desperate need of. I don't really understand what you're getting at here. I'll try and ask a different way, how do you think the economy would look without the influx of immigrant labour that won the referendum for the Brexit campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12770 Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I think that's easy to say when your not affected by it. There's a lot of places that over 10 years have had a massive influx of immigrants that has changed the look and feel of their towns / services greatly. There was a town on Newsnight last night in Lincolnshire (Boston ?) that's population has increased by 11% due to migrants in the last 10 years. They did a vox pop in the high street where the immigrants were saying they faced no abuse and the locals were saying "they're al welcome here but we just can't take any more". Now I appreciate that's not replicated everywhere, but it's definitely a legitimate concern in a lot of communities. Was that Popeye being interviewed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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