Politics

[Dr Gloom 19841]

4 hours ago, Renton said:

BBC news man, fucking hell. Going around the country exclusively interviewing tory voters and members. Endless vox pops of "Boris got Brexit done". Despite the fact the polls show the tories are barely in double figures.

 

How man @Dr Gloom. This really isn't defendable, is it? 

dude, you know I’m not paid to defend the bbc, yeah?

[Renton 17828]

34 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Right but the Tories are now two parties within one. The moderates (by Tory standards) are now about to take back control of their party, and will be able to blame all the madness and chaos on the ERG lunatics, essentially creating a distinction in the minds of voters between them and what they replaced. So when the country starts to stabilise they will get the credit for that.

 

My concern is that this position is the same one Labour have been relying on - the competent and capable ones in the room - if the Tory moderates get a crack at that first, Labour suddenly have a much harder time distinguishing themselves.

 

We need to get these psychos out of office, and right now I'd take Johnson over anyone else on the basis that Labour are already set up to beat him. We need them divided.

 

You might be right but I'll take 2 years of Johnson if it lowers the risk of 5 further years of the most destructive political party in history.

 

There are virtually no tory moderates left, I can barely think of any,  and the ERG will still have a massive influence on the party. Compare likely front benches. Then think what is happening economically etc. Johnson can do immense damage in 2 years, I sincerely hope he doesn't get the chance just to help your bedwetting tendencies.

[Renton 17828]

8 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

dude, you know I’m not paid to defend the bbc, yeah?

 

I thought you just did it for free.

You do support their editorial policy though. I was questioning why their vox pops were all tories today. They do this shit all the time. 

[Rayvin 4964]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

There are virtually no tory moderates left, I can barely think of any,  and the ERG will still have a massive influence on the party. Compare likely front benches. Then think what is happening economically etc. Johnson can do immense damage in 2 years, I sincerely hope he doesn't get the chance just to help your bedwetting tendencies.

 

My sentiments on the matter have no bearing on anything so you don't need too much hope mate  Whatever will be is up to a handful of out of touch lunatics, not me.

[Craig 6308]

47 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

You might be right but I'll take 2 years of Johnson if it lowers the risk of 5 further years of the most destructive political party in history.

This is bed wetting on a scale not even CT is capable of. The Tories have no chance of winning the next election in much the same way they had no chance of getting back in after Black Wednesday, 30 years ago. And that was with one the most moderate Tory PMs they’ve had. 
 

2 years of Johnson would be utterly catastrophic. I’m aghast you’d even entertain the idea for 1 second.

[Renton 17828]

Well aye. Tell you what though I am getting so sick of this tory psychodrama. It's like a shit drama that has now completely jumped the shark. Can we not just get politics back to being about boring men in grey suits running the country competently? Back to the days when politics wasn't really a thing? Putin can get fucked too.

[Rayvin 4964]

12 minutes ago, Craig said:

This is bed wetting on a scale not even CT is capable of. The Tories have no chance of winning the next election in much the same way they had no chance of getting back in after Black Wednesday, 30 years ago. And that was with one the most moderate Tory PMs they’ve had. 
 

2 years of Johnson would be utterly catastrophic. I’m aghast you’d even entertain the idea for 1 second.

 

 Somehow, despite the hysterical reactions to this view, I will soldier on.

[Craig 6308]

There’s nothing hysterical. In terms of a GE, in all likelihood we won’t be seeing one before the end of this parliamentary term. The only hope for one sooner is the appointment of a more moderate, one-nation Conservative as PM who would put national interests before those of their party. But you make clear you don’t want a moderate. There’s no way a psychopath like Johnson would bring it earlier.

 

As much as we’d all want the Tories tossed into the long grass ASAP, the reality is we’ll have to endure them for a period of time yet. In the national interest I’d want someone who stands half a chance of improving the dire economic mess we find ourselves in - else we may find there’s fuck all left for Labour to inherit. This country can’t sustain much more of this.

 

The focus of the next GE needs to be less about how shit the situation the Tories can get into and more about how optimal the idea of a Labour government would be. And to be totally blunt, if Labour can’t achieve a sizeable victory on the back of the absolute scenes we’ve had since December 2019, they don’t deserve to be in power.

 

Johnson returning would be an utter disaster - both politically and constitutionally. And as was pointed out on QT this evening, it’d give Trump massive impetus for his own reelection campaign in the US

[Renton 17828]

The last thing I want to see on my TV screen for the next 2 years is that gurning cunt spouting his bumbling lies over and over again. He'll rip the country apart and I'll lose my sanity.

[Rayvin 4964]

18 minutes ago, Craig said:

There’s nothing hysterical. In terms of a GE, in all likelihood we won’t be seeing one before the end of this parliamentary term. The only hope for one sooner is the appointment of a more moderate, one-nation Conservative as PM who would put national interests before those of their party. But you make clear you don’t want a moderate. There’s no way a psychopath like Johnson would bring it earlier.

 

As much as we’d all want the Tories tossed into the long grass ASAP, the reality is we’ll have to endure them for a period of time yet. In the national interest I’d want someone who stands half a chance of improving the dire economic mess we find ourselves in - else we may find there’s fuck all left for Labour to inherit. This country can’t sustain much more of this.

 

The focus of the next GE needs to be less about how shit the situation the Tories can get into and more about how optimal the idea of a Labour government would be. And to be totally blunt, if Labour can’t achieve a sizeable victory on the back of the absolute scenes we’ve had since December 2019, they don’t deserve to be in power.

 

Johnson returning would be an utter disaster - both politically and constitutionally. And as was pointed out on QT this evening, it’d give Trump massive impetus for his own reelection campaign in the US

 

Where has this idea come from that the rest of the Tory party other than Johnson -aren't- psychopaths? Cameron killed 180,000 people with his ideologically driven austerity drive - a political choice. Johnson managed similar numbers, but he was aided by a pandemic tbf to him.

 

It seems likely that the "moderates" are coming back with austerity in spades. I doubt Johnson would, he wants to be loved too much.

 

As for 'the country can't sustain much more of this' I do appreciate all metrics for this sort of comment are subjective, but we passed that particular road sign about 5 years ago IMO. This country is fucked, is where I am. I'm borderline on it even being reversible at this point, I think we might actually just have fucked ourselves permanently into a much lower standard of life in the UK. But we did that over the past 12 years, not just through Johnson or Truss, not even just through Brexit. We did this under the moderate Tories, first and foremost.

 

That point aside, with the 'hysterical' bit I was merely referencing the fact that you noted you were "aghast" that I would prefer Johnson and comfortable victory over moderates, austerity, and less comfortable victory.

 

You want the moderates back in charge to impose 'sensible' austerity and all the harm that does, fair enough. I'd sooner take my chances with a giant infant who wants to be loved, at least until we can get rid of his party.

[Gemmill 34635]

 

 

 

[Gemmill 34635]

I think there's something to what Rayvin is saying. Who knows how the electorate would react to a competent couple of years from Mordaunt, if the right wing press swing behind her and really go after Starmer, as we know they will. 

 

I still don't want Johnson back because I think he's poisonous, but I think Mordaunt or Sunak might make things an awful lot closer at the next GE, whenever it happens. 

 

But then I think, yeah but we're about to have a horrendous winter and it's not going to get any better next winter, and I think they might still be done for. 

 

Mostly I'm just fucking sick of the amount of my day I spend thinking about this shit. 

[Sonatine 10007]

[wykikitoon 16734]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

I think there's something to what Rayvin is saying. Who knows how the electorate would react to a competent couple of years from Mordaunt, if the right wing press swing behind her and really go after Starmer, as we know they will. 

 

I still don't want Johnson back because I think he's poisonous, but I think Mordaunt or Sunak might make things an awful lot closer at the next GE, whenever it happens. 

 

But then I think, yeah but we're about to have a horrendous winter and it's not going to get any better next winter, and I think they might still be done for. 

 

Mostly I'm just fucking sick of the amount of my day I spend thinking about this shit. 

That's the thing. If they do stabalise things then the Murdoch media machine steams ahead and the 'gammons' well act like gammons 

[Rayvin 4964]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

I think there's something to what Rayvin is saying. Who knows how the electorate would react to a competent couple of years from Mordaunt, if the right wing press swing behind her and really go after Starmer, as we know they will. 

 

I still don't want Johnson back because I think he's poisonous, but I think Mordaunt or Sunak might make things an awful lot closer at the next GE, whenever it happens. 

 

But then I think, yeah but we're about to have a horrendous winter and it's not going to get any better next winter, and I think they might still be done for. 

 

Mostly I'm just fucking sick of the amount of my day I spend thinking about this shit. 

 

Me too on this last point - I just can't bear the thought of them getting away with this somehow. The entire right wing press will rally behind Mordaunt or Sunak who will remain credible for long enough to make it stick, then they'll come for Labour in the usual way that they always do. This poll lead has to survive two years of that - and maybe it can, but the Tories absolutely will attempt a reset on these two if they can, and the right wing press will support them in that.

 

I don't think they'll win either... but this fucking party is like the zombie that you think you successfully brained only for it to lurch up a couple of minutes later - despite the fact that half of its head is missing - and take a chunk out of your leg. I'd be standing there unloading a shotgun into it's fucking face until there was nothing left but mush on the floor, at this point.

[Dr Gloom 19841]

7 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I thought you just did it for free.

You do support their editorial policy though. I was questioning why their vox pops were all tories today. They do this shit all the time. 

 
I dunno. I didn’t see the report you’re talking of. I did see the 10pm news, which included a lazy report full of voxpops from a safe Tory seat in Yorkshire - presumably to get a sense we of what they made of it all. It wasn’t particularly positive 

[Gemmill 34635]

 

A fucking WEEK AGO man. 

 

 

[Gemmill 34635]

 

 

Honking pudding.

 

 

 

[wykikitoon 16734]

11 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

A fucking WEEK AGO man. 

 

 

That's what Eton does to you.  Pig shagging is normal to these cunts.

[Rayvin 4964]

In an interview with LBC’s Andrew Marr, the former cabinet minister David Davis told Johnson “Go back to the beach”, while other Conservatives variously described the former prime minister as “electorally toxic”, “dangerous for democracy” and “Labour’s secret weapon”.

 

The fact that they don't want him, is telling.

[NJS 3986]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

In an interview with LBC’s Andrew Marr, the former cabinet minister David Davis told Johnson “Go back to the beach”, while other Conservatives variously described the former prime minister as “electorally toxic”, “dangerous for democracy” and “Labour’s secret weapon”.

 

The fact that they don't want him, is telling.

If he gets a hundred loons though he'll win - and all the ministers and cabinet will come from the loon brigade. 

[Rayvin 4964]

3 minutes ago, NJS said:

If he gets a hundred loons though he'll win - and all the ministers and cabinet will come from the loon brigade. 

 

They're all loons IMO, some of them are just more honest about it than others.

 

Seems unlikely he gets that 100 and the Tories seem to understand that they stand no chance if he takes over, so we may be back to 'strong and stable' Tory moderates from this point either way.

[RobinRobin 9250]

36 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

That's what Eton does to you.  Pig shagging is normal to these cunts.

You fuck one pig ... 

[Gemmill 34635]

The Ukrainian govt has tweeted a picture mirroring the Better call Saul graphics, saying "Better Call Boris". A load of people told them to fuck off and they've deleted it.

 

[Renton 17828]

8 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Where has this idea come from that the rest of the Tory party other than Johnson -aren't- psychopaths? Cameron killed 180,000 people with his ideologically driven austerity drive - a political choice. Johnson managed similar numbers, but he was aided by a pandemic tbf to him.

 

It seems likely that the "moderates" are coming back with austerity in spades. I doubt Johnson would, he wants to be loved too much.

 

As for 'the country can't sustain much more of this' I do appreciate all metrics for this sort of comment are subjective, but we passed that particular road sign about 5 years ago IMO. This country is fucked, is where I am. I'm borderline on it even being reversible at this point, I think we might actually just have fucked ourselves permanently into a much lower standard of life in the UK. But we did that over the past 12 years, not just through Johnson or Truss, not even just through Brexit. We did this under the moderate Tories, first and foremost.

 

That point aside, with the 'hysterical' bit I was merely referencing the fact that you noted you were "aghast" that I would prefer Johnson and comfortable victory over moderates, austerity, and less comfortable victory.

 

You want the moderates back in charge to impose 'sensible' austerity and all the harm that does, fair enough. I'd sooner take my chances with a giant infant who wants to be loved, at least until we can get rid of his party.

 

Can you list these "moderates"? I can't think of any. Sunak and Hunt are technocrats, but they are far, far to the on the right on the overton window. But the key difference between these and Johnson is that they do not seek to destroy the institutions of the UK in the way he does. They are also relatively honest in their approach. I think you're almost falling into the "they're all the same" trap. That's bullshit, Johnson is our Trump. Labour will comfortably beat any of these candidates, I have 100% confidence in that, but Johnson will degrade and defile politics further given the chance, making it much harder for Labour to reverse the damage. I can't accept this is a good thing.