Dr Gloom 19837 Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) Vice's reporting embedded with Isis in Syria and Iraq is brilliant, terrifying and, I think, worthy of its own thread.Warning, some graphic images require a strong stomach.https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-1Timely reporting too given Obama's decision to strike Isis in Iraq.Ironically there's a case for US boots on the ground in Iraq this time if Isis continue to advance, unlike the last gulf war, which was launched on a lie. Not that I think that will happen. Obama doesn't want to repeat mistakes of his predecessors in the Middle East. But its Iraq's strategic importance for the US as well as the humanitarian crisis that explains why they've acted. We've seen from other humanitarian crises that have played out across the Arab world lately that the yanks won't intervene on that alone. Edited August 11, 2014 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16726 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Totally brain washed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19837 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 the 11 year old banging on about killing the infadels is scary. part 2 - https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-2 part 3 - https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16726 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 the 11 year old banging on about killing the infadels is scary. part 2 - https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-2 part 3 - https://news.vice.com/video/the-islamic-state-part-3 Cheers, I shall watch them. Yes, very scary indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3472 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/08/islamic-state-nightmare-not-holy-unholy-mess-iraq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19837 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Good read that. There's no doubt that US intervention when it wasn't needed in Iraq and non-intervention, when arguably there was a case for it, in Syria has boosted the Isis cause. Removing Saddam was the biggest of all fuck ups. Not that he wasn't without flaws but Iraq was stable under his dictatorship. Now look at it. There wasn't a case to go into Iraq last time round but having gone in you have to see it through. Sadly this was all too predictable but Obama was dead set from the start on not pursuing the same Middle East policy a his predecessors. Getting out when he did means he might not have any choice now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Obama will put troops on the ground if IS get too close to Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausman 0 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Won't need to, Israel are quite capable of taking care of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3472 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Won't need to, Israel are quite capable of taking care of themselves. With equipment provided and funded by the USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17824 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Isis have US equipment too ironically. Who would you like to see win in a square off incidentally aimaad? These Islamic state guys make al queda look well adjusted tbh. I've been against western intervention in all the recent wars and the consequences of them, but would support everything it takes to wipe these from the face of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3472 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Even if they are one of the consequences of the wars you dont support? What could be the consequences of further intervention? Or are we again going to think about that after its happened? Not saying outside help is not needed just that there should be better thought put into it this time. For instance I've already read some articles about how US airstrikes could actually help ISIS gather more support from locals. Isn't Baghdadi ex CIA, allegedly? I wonder if its just US equipment that they have. If there's an all out conflict with the US military there's not a question of who's going to win is there? Your question is a bit patronising. As if I would support the rise of a power that slaughters thousands in its wake, simply because they do it in the name of Islam. I posted the article above because it attempted to explain why this has very little to do with religion no matter what the ISIS wants you to think. Secondly, I would not support them even if it did. Few people would. I hope they're dealt with as soon as possible. Not sure how because its an almighty mess. My hate for US foreign policy and everything they've been upto since WWII does not make me blind to other evils. I do hope they're made to answer for it too someday though, not least for their role in whats happening in Gaza right now.Shuddering to think whats going to happen to Afghanistan after troop withdrawal, and the impact it could have on Pakistan. We've already had to deal with a good decade of violence because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3472 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 :lol: When President Obama announced US airstrikes in Iraq, most observers understood that the US would be bombing members of ISIS. What many did not know was that, in a twist of such bitterly symbolic irony that it could only occur in the Middle East, the US would also be bombing hundreds of millions of dollars worth of American military equipment. Here's why: in the decade since the 2003 US-led Iraq invasion, the US has spent a fortune training and arming the Iraqi army in the hopes of readying it to secure the country once America left. That meant arming the Iraqi army with high-tech and extremely expensive American-made guns, tanks, jeeps, artillery, and more. WE'RE BOMBING THE GUNS THAT WE DIDN'T MEAN TO GIVE ISIS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T GIVE GUNS TO THEIR ENEMIES BECAUSE THEN ISIS MIGHT GET GUNS But the Iraqi army has been largely a failure. When ISIS invaded northern Iraq from Syria in June, the Iraqi forces deserted or retreated en masse. Many of them abandoned their American equipment. ISIS scooped it up themselves and are now using it to rampage across Iraq, seizing whole cities, terrorizing minorities, and finally pushing into even once-secure Kurdish territory. All with shiny American military equipment. So the US air strikes against ISIS are in part to destroy US military equipment, such as the artillery ISIS has been using against Kurdish forces. The absurdity runs deep: America is using American military equipment to bomb other pieces of American military equipment halfway around the world. The reason the American military equipment got there in the first place was because, in 2003, the US had to use its military to rebuild the Iraqi army, which it just finished destroying with the American military. The American weapons the US gave the Iraqi army totally failed at making Iraq secure and have become tools of terror used by an offshoot of al-Qaeda to terrorize the Iraqis that the US supposedly liberated a decade ago. And so now the US has to use American weaponry to destroy the American weaponry it gave Iraqis to make Iraqis safer, in order to make Iraqis safer. It keeps going: the US is intervening on behalf of Iraqi Kurds, our ally, because their military has old Russian-made weapons, whereas ISIS, which is America's enemy, has higher-quality American weapons. "[Kurdish forces] are literally outgunned by an ISIS that is fighting with hundreds of millions of dollars of U.S. military equipment seized from the Iraqi Army who abandoned it," Ali Khedery, a former American official in Iraq, told the New York Times. More: One reason that ISIS has been so successful at conquering northern Iraq is that it has a huge base of operations in Syria, where it had exploited the civil war to overtake huge swathes of Syrian territory. One reason that ISIS was so successful in Syria is that the US refused to arm moderate Syrian rebels, for fear that the weapons would fall into ISIS's hands. So that made it easier for ISIS to overpower the under-funded moderate rebels, and now ISIS has seized, in Iraq, much better versions of the weapons that we were so worried they might acquire in Syria. So now we're bombing the guns that we didn't mean to give ISIS because we didn't give guns to their enemies because then ISIS might get guns. It's not just ironic; it's a symbol of how disastrous the last 15 years of US Iraq policy have been, how circuitous and self-perpetuating the violence, that we are now bombing our own guns. Welcome to American grand strategy in the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17824 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 This was all predicted before the second Iraq war, I remember clearly. Tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19837 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 He was in such a mission to be seen as the president to withdraw from Iraq that he pulled out troops too soon. It was wrong to go in in the first place but the situation in Iraq now is worse than ever, with the prospect of lawless statelets at war. A complete lack of stability in on of the middle east's most strategically important countries. Should have stayed to see the job through. They've created a right mess. And whatever you think of Saddam, at least he could control them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I don't think it would have mattered how long the USA troops had stayed in Iraq.if the locals don't fancy it,as in Vietnam,they will eventially chuck the towel in. Wars are about man's quest for power.Using the word religion can get a bigger harder gang together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Didn't the US assist members of IS in an attempt to dethrow Assad? I've seen a lot of what IS is about. Cutting the throats of adversaries with blunt knives is how they take care of "their problem". We have IS supporters here. I wouldn't have a problem seeing them exterminated, here and wherever they exist. Islamic extremism caused by the US is the biggest threat to Western democracy ironically. I agree that ridding Iraq of Saddam was a huge mistake too. I believed that in 2003. The US are almost self-sufficient with there energy needs now. No need to involve themselves other than drone strikes and covert operations. Fits the bill of the Democrats who are in power at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Didn't the US assist members of IS in an attempt to dethrow Assad? I've seen a lot of what IS is about. Cutting the throats of adversaries with blunt knives is how they take care of "their problem". We have IS supporters here. I wouldn't have a problem seeing them exterminated, here and wherever they exist. Islamic extremism caused by the US is the biggest threat to Western democracy ironically. I agree that ridding Iraq of Saddam was a huge mistake too. I believed that in 2003. The US are almost self-sufficient with there energy needs now. No need to involve themselves other than drone strikes and covert operations. Fits the bill of the Democrats who are in power at the moment. ISIS are funded by Qatar and Saudi. The core group were originally trained by the U.S./CIA/Turkey in Jordan...To keep the pressure on Assad. As the membership increased due to large sums of cash they went rogue as is often the case with these groups vis a vie Mujahadeen into Al Kidder. Those Toyota 'technicals' as they are known in the trade were shipped in via Turkey who also want Syria fucked up. Saddam went off reservation when he started selling oil in euros (this threatens the stability of the dollar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausman 0 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Absolutely spot on Park man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobamorisRevenge 0 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 did you realise this is all a british plot? if that one passed you by, here is the proof.... BRITS to rule the waves again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) Those 7 year Saturn cycles I was on about a couple of weeks ago... People on here dismissed it of course. Horses mouth. "I'm going to test you on your numerology skills"....(Say what?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV43ZMHD3io Edited August 22, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3984 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Had to laugh at the US Defence secretary - "they're well funded and well armed" - yes - by your allies and you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 (edited) ISIS The code revealed. 0 Little matter: Following this tedious calamity, we’re introduced to the arboreal city-state Caesar and his friends have built among the redwoods. The set design is impeccable—their cliff-clinging home is built on the remains of an old 76 gas station off route 101—and the apes themselves are nothing short of a revelation... http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/07/dawn-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-great-except-for-those-pesky-humans/374269/ Edited August 22, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Had to laugh at the US Defence secretary - "they're well funded and well armed" - yes - by your allies and you. I did chuckle at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TobamorisRevenge 0 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) heard today that radicals in malaysia and surrounding areas are wanting to join the isis caliphate. imo its going to go global..... better wake up then america. How soon before it hits europe? Edited August 26, 2014 by TobamorisRevenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30450 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 heard today that radicals in malaysia and surrounding areas are wanting to join the isis caliphate. imo its going to go global..... better wake up then america. How soon before it hits europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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