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UKIP and the rise of doublethink.


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Stupid premise, the fact that New Labourites made a shed of cash post-power is standard for ex-politicians everywhere for over a decade now. Being being fabulously wealthy all your life and then fucking the working class when you come to power for ideological reasons is a very different proposition to doing loads for the working class in power and then becoming fabulously wealthy afterwards by exploiting lobby-hungry bloated clients.

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Can you explain this bit more? I'm interested as to how this will be achieved and what will follow (genuinely)?

Don't they realise you're meant to put a condom on your bell end? Not the other way round

The article shows the trend of the current shadow cabinet all being well off....Millionaires and some multi-millionaires. Upper end public servants and EU types also get massive pensions and will be millionaires anyway over time (that isn't so much money these days). The general theme is that so much of the left these days is public school, top university and from wealthy backgrounds and most have never had a real job (some lawyering is as far as most go).

 

I threw the link in cause OJ it seems wants to build a new kind of Labour Party a little lefter than the current one (riddled with Blairites and Austerity apologists). I guess he as Gloom says is looking for a kind of Old Labour resurgence. I think this is cause he is too ensconed with the media and political intelligensia...Cause it's quite clear from recent history that something even a little lefter of New Labour can't win.

 

Milliband himself is a multi-millionaire (probably why he can't eat a bacon sarnie).

 

I know what you're saying and the post power directorships will come but a lot of them are really rich already with property portfolios and so on. It also begs the question of why 'socialists' chase money so hard when they leave?

 

Is it that the Labour party is now diconnected from its power base or has the power base become atomised?

 

High profile avatars like OJ and Brand who get a lot of media play (really a lot) are something else.

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I'll happily lay that. Think they've lost a bit of momentum and it'll be more like 4 or 5 tops (a couple of their targets, not Farage's one, plus a couple of accidental northern three-way scraps), albeit with - say - 16% of the vote. The debates could yet be a game-changer though.

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How are they going to have a meaningful debate with this many participants? If it's anything like last time they'll all just be falling over each other with meaningless rhetoric, except to a greater degree as there are two additional politicians. I don't think there'll even be sufficient time for all of the candidates to voice their opinions on things.

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I think the Tory plan is to reduce the credibility of Farage by flooding the stage with non-entities. They basically robbed the idea from the West Wing.

 

To be honest, parties could do a lot worse than employing Sorkin, or just ripping his ideas off wholesale.

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I have to say that you are taking a real risk employing a Brit - they don't turn up, they moan, they threaten to sue at the drop of hat

 

They are slo horribly unproductive - the French (for Gods sake) make more value in 4 days than the average Brit does in 5

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I turn 18 just in time to vote in the upcoming election, and I'm pretty certain that unless something drastic happens I'll be giving UKIP my vote. Think I already posted on this thread a while back saying I was considering it - but my mind is pretty much made up now.

 

I'm not particularly happy to be doing so, I wouldn't call myself a 'supporter', and certainly not a member (don't think my centre left-ish politics would fit in too well with them), but I'm just massively fucked off with a large section of the 'left'.

 

Now I'm pretty decent at articulating myself, but I've lost count of the number of times the phrases 'fascist', 'nazi', 'racist', 'bigot' etc. have been used against me simply for stating that I completely oppose the premise of mass-immigration. My argument is simple - I've yet to hear a single person explain how mass immigration, and the resulting unlimited supply of cheap low-skilled labour benefits the working class in any way shape or form. It's a wet-dream for big business, yet I see so called socialists bending over backwards to tell us how wonderful it is. Not one person has been able to explain that to me. Instead they've attempted to patronise me in Owen Jones mode and told me to 'STOP SCAPEGOATING AND HATING ON IMMIGRANTS!!!!!!!'. Well I'm not, my ire is directed towards politicians. I'm not a cunt. I don't 'blame' immigrants. In fact, my life is barely, if at all, impacted on by immigrants - however that doesn't mean I can't oppose something - in the same way I'm not affected by the bedroom tax (or spare room subsidy if we have any Tory pedants on here).

 

I keep hearing from a lot of people that 'they don't mind debating immigration, as long as it's a fair debate and isn't toxic/bigoted', however these same people completely shut down debate in reality by stating 'immigrants boost the economy by X, so any objections to them must be a racist, therefore you are Enoch Powell.'

 

When did the left become Thatcherites? Because immigration puts X into the economy, does that still mean all resulting issues that stem from it are OK? High-skilled, specialised immigration - I get that, totally, fair enough. But low/un-skilled? Why do we need it? We have plenty of British unemployed who would be capable of doing these jobs - why are we advocating that these people are shoved to the bottom of the pile - or even better, make patronising statements such as 'WELL IF A BRIT CAN'T GET A JOB AHEAD OF AN IMMIGRANT THEY DON'T DESERVE IT LOL LAZY BRITS'. Imagine the faux-outrage if such a statement was made about any other nationality? Why couldn't British workers offer the exact same economic benefit? (obviously excluding high-skilled jobs).

 

British jobs for British workers isn't a racist concept. Yes it may have been used by the BNP, but was also mentioned by Gordan Brown (but that was ok), and more recently Farage has said the same and it has now became racist again.

 

I support the idea that we should attempt to ensure as high a level of employment amongst British people first - and I imagine, in fact know, that there's a low of ordinary, working class, Labour/Union lads that feel the same.

 

I think that people are going to get a shock in May. Not regarding seats, UKIP won't win many of those, but by the share of the vote. People are angry, they feel ignored and marginalised. My grandad, a lifelong Labour voter will be voting UKIP in May, I reckon I'll be joining him.

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The media have focussed the debate around immigration with regard to UKip but it is actually more about soverignity. Getting power back with regard to the destiny of our country. Germans don't worry about this cause they control the EU..Nothing in the EU happens unless the German elite want it. This has led very swiftly to a two tier Europe in which many people are suffering joblessness and poverty and a lack of any real hope.

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I genuinely believe a failure to address mass-immigration (and consequently EU membership) will result in the left losing influence over an entire generation.

 

I know I'm supposed to sit on the internet and preach the INTERNATIONALIST PERSPECTIVE but I think there's enough Ivory Tower dwellers as it is; ignore it at your peril

 

And I've not even mentioned social impacts yet.

 

I wonder if the people of Oxford and Rotherham feel 'culturally enriched'? At least someone from the 'Comment is Free' section of the Guardian can tell us all that mass-child rape is compensated for by nice cuisine....

 

Not that I'm for one minute suggesting this is in any way an issue that immigrants have a monopoly over. However it seems like a pretty reasonable statement (to me at least) to point out there are certain sub-sections of the Islamic community that suffer from deep-rooted misogyny and see Western Girls as 'fair game' due to their lifestyles. This wouldn't have been allowed to reach such a devastating stage however, if it wasn't for other members of such communities giving their silent approval to such behavior, and our own authorities for failing to act to concerns raised.

 

Such a comment has once again, despite actual empirical evidence, and the fact there are a number of nationwide police operations set up to investigate such issues (Sanctuary up here), resulted in cries of RACISM and BIGOTRY. (Ironically from the far-far-left, who only care about homophobia and misogyny if the perpetrators are white).

 

It seems obvious to me why many people, rightly or wrongly, are looking at UKIP and thinking 'at least these cunts are willing to put their heads above the parapet and say something'.

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It seems obvious to me why many people, rightly or wrongly, are looking at UKIP and thinking 'at least these cunts are willing to put their heads above the parapet and say something'.

 

Isn't that ludicrously simplistic though?

 

I understand that a lot of the electorate do see things in a very black and white way and neither know or care too much that they're being manipulated by a fuckin charlatan, but voting for basically a single issue party isn't a great idea whatever their issue is. Coming out of the EU is shutting the door a decade after the horse bolted and will do nothing to stop Moslems coming from the sub continent anyway. You make good points but I think there are forces in the world which we're not party to which drive globalisation and multiculturalism and we can frankly do fuck all about them iyam.

 

Thatcher started to sell our democracy to the corporates in the early 80s and no ones stopped it since then because no one in power really has had the motivation to do so. Am not a paranoid conspiracy theorist nutter but Its pretty plain iyam that there's a group of people who have made immigration ridiculously easy in this country for their own ends, sadly though to think Farage can be a conduit to begin to attempt to sort the whole sorry mess out is laughable. There's little that can be done regardless of what he tells the easily lead.

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Am not a paranoid conspiracy theorist nutter but Its pretty plain iyam that there's a group of people who have made immigration ridiculously easy in this country for their own ends, sadly though to think Farage can be a conduit to begin to attempt to sort the whole sorry mess out is laughable. There's little that can be done regardless of what he tells the easily lead.

It's obvious to me that the most recent key was letting the less developed EU countries in knowing full well it would mean a shit load of workers migrating. I think the argument over whether 3 year moratoriums should have been in place are pointless as they would have come eventually.

 

I think its plain the only gainers are the corporations and of course the fukcing farmers - but then again the latter are under severe pressure from the former.

 

I would also like to think that the plainly stupid relaxation of Asian family visas wasn't as simplistically fuckwiited as Labour importing voters but when cunts like Madelson are involved I wouldn't put it past them.

 

I think skilled/sponsored immigration is fine but as I've said before, even that has had a negative effect on salaries in my line of work.

 

Whether anyone thinks UKIP are idiots are not, the practicalities of introducing any of their policies would be nightmarish.

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A lot of words there dimple boy but not a lot of actual content. However, I would point out that dismissing the economic benefits of immigration because people who express that view then go on to accuse you of being Enoch Powell is the epitome of being 'simplistic'. The economic debate amongst professional economists never descends to name calling (on the whole). Perhaps you should engage with the authors of such analyses instead of twits on your Facebook for a more fruitful understanding of the dynamics?

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