Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 CT has gone from arguing that Labour caused the crisis by spending far too much on services we couldn't afford (services the Tories are right to cut) to arguing that they turned a blind eye to complex financial instruments that nobody in the city had either eye on (instruments the Tories still alllow to trade). And he's tried to frame this as a consistent view. 2 entirely separate things As Jeremy said today, the government sat back and milked the situation even though they knew it was a bubble and knew it was unsustainable. This was common knowledge at the time both within government and within the Bank of England. Sure they didn't realise how big the crash would be, but that's no excuse for not taking enough action. It's a bit like the establishment turning a blind eye to Saville because it was just the odd bit of this and that. As for Labours spending, because they didn't fix the roof while milking this fraudulent situation, we got hammered harder that we need have been when the crash hit. Absolutely poor financial management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I'm more impressed that he sat through a film about how no body saw any way the housing market would crash except a handful of people (who were all on the fringes) and what he took from it was that it was clear to any and everybody that it was an unsustainable bubble that would definitely crash. Everyone knew it would crash, it's the level of fraud involved and the size of the crash that was not known. Allowing a situation where building societies could start flogging mortgages where nobody checked how much people earned. Scandalous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34533 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Pastry! Urgh And anyway, I've grown a Walter white beard so crumbs wouldn't make it that far Your head must look like Humpty Dumpty with a ginger sideways fanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 CT has also criticised Brown for selling the gold and criticised Brown for not selling the gold. Never (I'd await your link but you'll come back with your usual..... I'm on my phone at work Blah blah patter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I thought that too but wasn't sure if even CT could be that contrary. We'll wait for the link together. Popcorn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12460 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) Everyone knew it would crash, it's the level of fraud involved and the size of the crash that was not known. Allowing a situation where building societies could start flogging mortgages where nobody checked how much people earned. Scandalous. Stop it man, they didn't know it would crash. Two of the biggest financial firms in the world (Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers) went belly up from this and the Government had to bail out many more or it would have been twenty times worse, if everyone had known it would crash why would the two biggest financial institutions in the world expose themselves to that level of risk? AIG was buying up tons of these Mortgage backed securities, billions and billions of dollars of them, so much so they were in massive jeopardy and had to sell off massive portions of their business operations to stay solvent. No body batted an eye when they were doing it, in fact it was seen as smart business by investing their money in securities that were assumed to always be good. You are on about predicting something that had never ever happened before, the banks missed it, the Big 4 accounting firms missed it, the bond rating firms missed it, and government regulators missed it. Stop acting like it was this inevitable thing that everybody saw coming a mile off, if that was the case Michael Burry wouldn't have been able to hoover up huge amounts of credit default swaps against them for a relatively small amount (he was able to use his small-ish hedge funds funds to bet against a massive percentage of the entire market on these things). Of course it was scandalous, but as I say that was all due to easings on regulations well before the fact there was nothing they could do at the time because as I say nobody thought this was possible, even the people placing bets against it weren't that sure early on it was a theory. It's absolutely ridiculous to say that in the mid-2000's everyone knew this was coming. Edited September 28, 2016 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12460 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) As Jeremy said today, the government sat back and milked the situation even though they knew it was a bubble and knew it was unsustainable. This was common knowledge at the time both within government and within the Bank of England. Sure they didn't realise how big the crash would be, but that's no excuse for not taking enough action. It's a bit like the establishment turning a blind eye to Saville because it was just the odd bit of this and that. :lol: :lol: You actually think this? This is absolutely absurd. They were almost all put out of business man, many of them lost a hell of a lot from this and some even lost everything, why would anyone in their right mind do that? If they knew it was coming then they would have all bet against it (like Burry did) and kept silent but that isn't what happened, why would they all keep investing in mortgage backed securities? They basically wiped out everything they 'milked' out of it, many in fact lost far more than they had ever got out of it. Edited September 28, 2016 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19828 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Everyone knew it would crash, it's the level of fraud involved and the size of the crash that was not known. Allowing a situation where building societies could start flogging mortgages where nobody checked how much people earned. Scandalous. no they didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17811 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Never (I'd await your link but you'll come back with your usual..... I'm on my phone at work Blah blah patter). Are you going senile? You've said it loads man. Yes, I'm on a phone but even using Google there's plenty of hits such as this. "They all admit they got it wrong, that's before we get into PFI's, selling off the gold and all the money they wasted". http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/27519-the-labour-leadership-campaign/page-37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17811 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Btw CT, it'd be interesting to see if you can find any time dated pieces to back up your assertions without the benefit of hindsight. Anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30440 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Outdoing yourself today, CT :lol: Carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Are you going senile? You've said it loads man. Yes, I'm on a phone but even using Google there's plenty of hits such as this. "They all admit they got it wrong, that's before we get into PFI's, selling off the gold and all the money they wasted". http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/27519-the-labour-leadership-campaign/page-37 I've always said he shouldn't have sold off the gold so cheaply. I've never said he should have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Btw CT, it'd be interesting to see if you can find any time dated pieces to back up your assertions without the benefit of hindsight. Anything. There was loads of news at the time that the housing was a bubble that would burst. The Bank of England said it was unsustainable. Do you think Labour should have allowed building societies to sell mortgages to people without verifying their income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Btw, the next housing crash will hit as soon as rates start to go up. Hopefully the powers that be have systems in place to lower the impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 :lol: :lol: You actually think this? This is absolutely absurd. They were almost all put out of business man, many of them lost a hell of a lot from this and some even lost everything, why would anyone in their right mind do that? If they knew it was coming then they would have all bet against it (like Burry did) and kept silent but that isn't what happened, why would they all keep investing in mortgage backed securities? They basically wiped out everything they 'milked' out of it, many in fact lost far more than they had ever got out of it. I reckon CT is probably conflating the (regular) bubble with the (unprecedented) crash, because he has nfi what 2008 actually meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 After watching that documentary too ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12460 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I reckon CT is probably conflating the (regular) bubble with the (unprecedented) crash, because he has nfi what 2008 actually meant.Aye his post about BoE predicting it would line up with that. The market will always go up and down CT but on the whole the housing market trends upwards, everyone knows this. A normal dip wouldn't have caused the crisis that is why nobody was worried, what we saw was a horrific turn that nobody, bar a tiny handful, thought was even remotely possible. As I say if this was some widely known thing what possible gain would they get from sitting on their hands? Bear in mind my other post talks about what happened to them and how all they 'milked' quickly went away because of it. Bankers generally don't love risk especially with bonds and in hindsight we saw all of the largest banks in the world take on crippling levels of risk, if theyand everyone else saw that coming why on Earth would they ever have accepted it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Btw, the next housing crash will hit as soon as rates start to go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Aye his post about BoE predicting it would line up with that. The market will always go up and down CT but on the whole the housing market trends upwards, everyone knows this. A normal dip wouldn't have caused the crisis that is why nobody was worried, what we saw was a horrific turn that nobody, bar a tiny handful, thought was even remotely possible. As I say if this was some widely known thing what possible gain would they get from sitting on their hands? Bear in mind my other post talks about what happened to them and how all they 'milked' quickly went away because of it. Bankers generally don't love risk especially with bonds and in hindsight we saw all of the largest banks in the world take on crippling levels of risk, if theyand everyone else saw that coming why on Earth would they ever have accepted it? I bet the Illuminati knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19828 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 We're talking about the biggest financial crash since the Great Depression and the subsequent sovereign debt crisis in Europe. This was a crisis created by the miss-selling of high risk and complicated financial products in an era of light touch regulation You could argue that Blair continued where Thatcher and Regan left off on the regulation side but it had little to do with govrnment expenditure or Labour's handling of public finances so your argument it was somehow soley Labour's fault is nonsense. Very few people saw it coming and pointing to the fact the BoE said there was a housing bubble does not prove otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12460 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 I bet the Illuminati knew. What don't they know TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 CT could teach them a few things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 We're talking about the biggest financial crash since the Great Depression and the subsequent sovereign debt crisis in Europe. This was a crisis created by the miss-selling of high risk and complicated financial products in an era of light touch regulation You could argue that Blair continued where Thatcher and Regan left off on the regulation side but it had little to do with govrnment expenditure or Labour's handling of public finances so your argument it was somehow soley Labour's fault is nonsense. Very few people saw it coming and pointing to the fact the BoE said there was a housing bubble does not prove otherwise. Whose job was it in the 2000's to regulate the banks so that mortgages could not be sold to people without income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19828 Posted September 28, 2016 Share Posted September 28, 2016 so you're still pinning this all on Labour? Hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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