wykikitoon 16635 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26814 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, thebrokendoll said: when did pointing out the need for attacking upgrades or the hope to see them come in constitute being a fickle idiot rather than stating the bleeding obvious? Mag behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6846 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, ewerk said: I'm not one of those moaning fuckers but if you look at the deals we've completed this summer, while they're all quality players, they've been fairly straightforward to do. We've been in talks for Botman for at least six months, Targett was already surplus to requirements at Villa and had been here on loan and Pope was never going to play in the Championship for Burnley. Not every deal is going to be that easy and our owners are very new to all this so we just have to have faith that Dan Ashworth can guide them. Other than setting the overall budget I would doubt the owners are involved and it's Ashworth/Eales running the show tbh and I do trust they know what they are doing. All well and good spending £40 Mill on a player you think is worth £30 Mill now, but that extra £10 mill comes out of a future pot due to constraints of FFP, if you know that commercial revenues are going to take off (they should) that £10 mill spent today could be the difference between going for/getting a £50/£60 mill player later as your budget increases/FFP becomes easier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26326 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Toonpack said: Other than setting the overall budget I would doubt the owners are involved and it's Ashworth/Eales running the show tbh and I do trust they know what they are doing. All well and good spending £40 Mill on a player you think is worth £30 Mill now, but that extra £10 mill comes out of a future pot due to constraints of FFP, if you know that commercial revenues are going to take off (they should) that £10 mill spent today could be the difference between going for/getting a £50/£60 mill player later as your budget increases/FFP becomes easier. It's been Mandy and the husband running the show up until very recently. Ashworth joined after the transfer window opened and Eales only started the job yesterday so it has very much been a case of the owners calling the shots. Your point about overspending is valid and it's obvious that the club have no intention of blowing their FFP headroom during this window but ultimately we need new players to help keep the momentum going on the pitch. There's no point in having an extra £10m to spend next season if we're still lower mid-table and unable to convince players that we're a serious candidate for European football. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBass 2224 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Given we're putting in a couple of bids for some of our targets (allegedly), you'd have thought we must be getting signs that said player can be bought. If not then, unless we go for players that are surplus to requirements, or are willing to rock the boat in their current club to get a move, we're just waisting our time. I very much doubt a club that doesn't want to lose a player is going to agree with our evaluation, ever. I know it's a start low and negotiate tactic but if you don't need to sell and don't want to sell that you're always going to overvalue your own player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6846 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, ewerk said: It's been Mandy and the husband running the show up until very recently. Ashworth joined after the transfer window opened and Eales only started the job yesterday so it has very much been a case of the owners calling the shots. Your point about overspending is valid and it's obvious that the club have no intention of blowing their FFP headroom during this window but ultimately we need new players to help keep the momentum going on the pitch. There's no point in having an extra £10m to spend next season if we're still lower mid-table and unable to convince players that we're a serious candidate for European football. The owners will call the shots in terms of setting the budget, but Ashworth will be running the show now, he's been in place well long enough. Even with current squad (based on performance since Howe arrived) I would expect upper mid-table to be very achievable and a sufficient sign of progress for players, who in the main will move for the best £££ anyway. That said, I trust the powers in charge know better than me and will be happy whatever happens. 34 points to go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16635 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Surly Chelsea will be letting some go out with the amount they've recruited. It's whether we are attractive enough for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16635 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Toonpack said: The owners will call the shots in terms of setting the budget, but Ashworth will be running the show now, he's been in place well long enough. Even with current squad (based on performance since Howe arrived) I would expect upper mid-table to be very achievable and a sufficient sign of progress for players, who in the main will move for the best £££ anyway. That said, I trust the powers in charge know better than me and will be happy whatever happens. 34 points to go. I think mid-table is achievable. But like True Faith have said and what others have said on here, including myself. The depth of our squad is wank. Shelvey IMO is a big loss. We lose Joe and we have Ciggy step in. We lose Wilson, Wood,. It's scary if we loose multiple to long term injuries. However the depth issue isn't going to be addressed over this window or Jan. Thanks to the cockney cunt, that's going to have to be addressed over multiple windows. What we need to address at the moment is the lack of chances created and lack of an option off the bench from Wilson. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6846 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: I think mid-table is achievable. But like True Faith have said and what others have said on here, including myself. The depth of our squad is wank. Shelvey IMO is a big loss. We lose Joe and we have Ciggy step in. We lose Wilson, Wood,. It's scary if we loose multiple to long term injuries. However the depth issue isn't going to be addressed over this window or Jan. Thanks to the cockney cunt, that's going to have to be addressed over multiple windows. What we need to address at the moment is the lack of chances created and lack of an option off the bench from Wilson. I am sure they are doing that, within the constraints they have, they won't spend over what they think is the right valuation if, in their opinion, it doesn't deliver sufficient upgrade over what we have. I am chilled whatever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, wykikitoon said: Harrison again He hoyed some great balls in at the weekend but I don't see Leeds selling him now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3603 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, ewerk said: I'm not one of those moaning fuckers but if you look at the deals we've completed this summer, while they're all quality players, they've been fairly straightforward to do. We've been in talks for Botman for at least six months, Targett was already surplus to requirements at Villa and had been here on loan and Pope was never going to play in the Championship for Burnley. Not every deal is going to be that easy and our owners are very new to all this so we just have to have faith that Dan Ashworth can guide them. The bolded seems to be the opposite of the rest of your post. We had a value in mind for Botman. It took 6 months to get there, but we got the player we wanted at the price we wanted. Long game innit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6846 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 It's also notable there's no interest, it seems, in any of our players by other clubs, Too many on wages higher than their worth and none wanted or valued on the market, problem shifting them and that's also a negative effect on our FFP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26326 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said: The bolded seems to be the opposite of the rest of your post. We had a value in mind for Botman. It took 6 months to get there, but we got the player we wanted at the price we wanted. Long game innit We bought him six months later at a time that suited the selling club. We were unable to force their hand in January but it was a much easier deal to do in June was the point I was making. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26326 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: I think mid-table is achievable. But like True Faith have said and what others have said on here, including myself. The depth of our squad is wank. Shelvey IMO is a big loss. We lose Joe and we have Ciggy step in. We lose Wilson, Wood,. It's scary if we loose multiple to long term injuries. However the depth issue isn't going to be addressed over this window or Jan. Thanks to the cockney cunt, that's going to have to be addressed over multiple windows. What we need to address at the moment is the lack of chances created and lack of an option off the bench from Wilson. Depth is a big problem for us. Our success in the second half of last season was partly based on intensity. We can't expect our starting XI to play with that intensity over a 38+ game season. We will have injuries and we will need players who need a rest. Right now I don't have a huge amount of confidence in many on our bench being able to seamlessly fit in when we are forced to make multiple changes to the lineup. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5906 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 hour ago, wykikitoon said: Aye. It's part of the process though init? Go in with an offer, they say 'nah, we want x' and then negotiate from there? It's the second but we seem to struggle with though... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 It's definitely frustrating that we've now got money and a will to spend it and we can't seem to get people through the door. I do think this is just something we need to go through though to establish a reputation as a club that won't be fucked with on player valuation. The fact we didn't budge on Botman in January will have been a factor in us getting him early in the summer window - his club knew at that point that taking the piss wasn't an option because we were prepared to look elsewhere. If we end up with loan signings this window in order to try and force a similar situation with Maddison or another player in Jan/next summer, then so be it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5906 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 I know you can't trust everything you read in the papers but there are consistent stories from multiple reliable journalists linking us with interest in/bids for Diaby, Isak, Maddison, Harrison, Broja, Sesko, Cornet, Werner, Gordon and Ramos. You start to wonder how far down the list we are now with Pedro and whether it was worth just offering the asking price for someone at the top of the list in the first place. It's also mental trying to buy Pedro 6 days after Watford have sold their other striker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 I think we've missed our main targets in this respect and we're now looking for a reasonable cover option for a bit of depth. This means our main problem of linking up in the final third doesn't get resolved this window. Honestly I think that's fine. Get the cover in, we're more than good enough to get top ten - hold what we've got and go again in January or next summer. 5-10 years we were told to actually win the thing, we don't need to be in Europe on year 1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6846 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 17 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I think we've missed our main targets in this respect and we're now looking for a reasonable cover option for a bit of depth. This means our main problem of linking up in the final third doesn't get resolved this window. Honestly I think that's fine. Get the cover in, we're more than good enough to get top ten - hold what we've got and go again in January or next summer. 5-10 years we were told to actually win the thing, we don't need to be in Europe on year 1. It would take a monumental/catastrophic implosion for us to fuck it up, even with an unenhanced squad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle 2853 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Toonpack said: It would take a monumental/catastrophic implosion for us to fuck it up, even with an unenhanced squad: And of those 21 games played Wilson played only four. Yet we scored 27, a modest amount for sure, but only one less that the mighty man yoo, the same as the highly regarded Brighton, more than a healthy Wolves, West Ham and Palace. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16635 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 But like ewerk pointed out. Last season we had the intensity and the threat of relegation. We also have WC this year so maybe we can play with that intensity upto November when we have a break, but who knows. Only way to judge is at the end of the transfer window. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26814 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 Also one or two teams will be a bit more prepared for playing against our newer players/set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6846 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 On top of the league fixtures getting piled in before the break, the CL/Europa teams have group games starting 6th September. Those teams are going to be really stretched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19822 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 15 minutes ago, Toonpack said: On top of the league fixtures getting piled in before the break, the CL/Europa teams have group games starting 6th September. Those teams are going to be really stretched. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34441 Posted August 16, 2022 Share Posted August 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, Toonpack said: On top of the league fixtures getting piled in before the break, the CL/Europa teams have group games starting 6th September. Those teams are going to be really stretched. https://www.themag.co.uk/2022/04/newcastle-united-are-breaking-the-top-six-tell-your-friends-but-not-your-journalists/ This is worth a read making exactly this point. I've posted it before but you lot probably need to read it twice for it to sink in. It's 6 extra games in eight weeks for all the teams in Europe, and West Ham have two extra games on top of that. That's a lot, especially if you're Man United and you're already absolute mince. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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