Craig 12383 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 I'm saying nothing. But statistically we've done better without him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 8362 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 As much as the media might want to believe it, we have at no point been carried on his shoulders. In fact, I'm tempted to say we make him look better than he actually is sometimes - he owes Murphy a lot for his stats last season. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 42149 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Apart from the short term issue of not having a striker (hopefully Wissa helps in that score soon) if Isak really is refusing to play then he might be doing us a favour from the point of view breaching his contract and his not having a leg to stand on legally. He’s been unbelievably poorly advised here. Not saying it’s not massively his fault too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2869 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Just now, Rayvin said: As much as the media might want to believe it, we have at no point been carried on his shoulders. In fact, I'm tempted to say we make him look better than he actually is sometimes - he owes Murphy a lot for his stats last season. Maybe that's why he's been so hysterically trying to get his move - in his mind it's a sliding door moment? He certainly wont get much service dropped from the team and training on his own.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2869 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, Alex said: Apart from the short term issue of not having a striker (hopefully Wissa helps in that score soon) if Isak really is refusing to play then he might be doing us a favour from the point of view breaching his contract and his not having a leg to stand on legally. He’s been unbelievably poorly advised here. Not saying it’s not massively his fault too. His agent seems to be a massive crook and a horrible self interested cunt. Typical agent in other words 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 27784 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: As much as the media might want to believe it, we have at no point been carried on his shoulders. In fact, I'm tempted to say we make him look better than he actually is sometimes - he owes Murphy a lot for his stats last season. He's not the most important player for us by any means. I'd like to see similar data for us without Joelinton or Tonali. Bruno may be more tricky as he is ever present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 8362 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 2 minutes ago, Kitman said: Maybe that's why he's been so hysterically trying to get his move - in his mind it's a sliding door moment? He certainly wont get much service dropped from the team and training on his own.... I think there might be something in this tbh. He wanted a new contract last summer and now he can see the chance for a really big payday while his stock is high. If he goes to Liverpool on 300k a week he doesn't have to maintain that level anymore, he's sorted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 27784 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Just now, Kitman said: His agent seems to be a massive crook and a horrible self interested cunt. Typical agent in other words Football would be wise to ban or at least heavily regulate and register these agents. They are a bugger problem than what PSR has been invented to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 15593 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 6 minutes ago, Renton said: He's not the most important player for us by any means. I'd like to see similar data for us without Joelinton or Tonali. Bruno may be more tricky as he is ever present. Joelinton has missed 43 games through injury since 21/22 season if you add in his suspensions he misses a shitload of time. Saw someone state 38% of games somewhere, dunno how accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2869 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, Renton said: Football would be wise to ban or at least heavily regulate and register these agents. They are a bugger problem than what PSR has been invented to solve. Absolutely, most of them are just leaches on their clients and it's in their interest to engineer moves and commissions which sucks money out of the game. Apparently Isak's dodgy agent is banned by a couple of clubs already over his crooked conduct. I cant imagine we'll have anything to do with him after this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 4681 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) I'd love to go fully that way and say we've never been carried by Isak but I think it's somewhere in the middle. Closer to not but he does have his moments. He has quite often got us goals from nowhere with a bit of magic. He can get us points when we're not playing well. He is lethal in front of goal. Even if he isn't perfect. He also absolutely does go missing in matches and very often (despite how much he is spoken about as more versatile/complete than someone like Haaland, for example) doesn't contribute much apart from his goals. It is not even that unlikely that without him until say January we could on the whole actually be a stronger side this season than last so long as we get a couple more signings in before September 1st and those signings gel together nicely with the rest of the side. Edited August 13 by toonotl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 9903 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 If we get two strikers in by end of window then he is gone. Im sticking with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 8362 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 minute ago, toonotl said: I'd love to go fully that way and say we've never been carried by Isak but I think it's somewhere in the middle. Closer to not but he does have his moments. He has quite often got us goals from nowhere with a bit of magic. He can get us points when we're not playing. He is lethal in front of goal. Even if he isn't perfect. He also absolutely does go missing in matches and very often (despite how much he is spoken about as more versatile/complete than someone like Haaland, for example) doesn't contribute much apart from his goals. It is not even that unlikely that without him until say January we could on the whole actually be a stronger side this season than last so long as we get a couple more signings in before September 1st and those signings gel together nicely with the rest of the side. Yeah fair, of course he does have his moments and can turn a draw into a win etc - but then even Schar has those moments so to some extent. But yes, he is a player who occasionally can spank it in from nothing - his goal against Arsenal to put us past them in the semi final was one, the goal against Liverpool was another. In the end though I suppose the question is, even if we bring in a forward who can't get those but does get all the tap ins he scores (and he isn't actually that reliable on those sometimes), how much is that really costing us in terms of competitive capability? And I mean every point counts tbf, but it's probably no more than 5 or 6 over the season won via his brilliance. If we've improved the team to make up that 5 or 6 elsewhere by adding some depth, then we're probably taking the edge off not having him. Or I could just be writing a theory to suit myself and my bias 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 4681 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Yeah fair, of course he does have his moments and can turn a draw into a win etc - but then even Schar has those moments so to some extent. But yes, he is a player who occasionally can spank it in from nothing - his goal against Arsenal to put us past them in the semi final was one, the goal against Liverpool was another. In the end though I suppose the question is, even if we bring in a forward who can't get those but does get all the tap ins he scores (and he isn't actually that reliable on those sometimes), how much is that really costing us in terms of competitive capability? And I mean every point counts tbf, but it's probably no more than 5 or 6 over the season won via his brilliance. If we've improved the team to make up that 5 or 6 elsewhere by adding some depth, then we're probably taking the edge off not having him. Or I could just be writing a theory to suit myself and my bias Nah. I think that's spot on. I think we basically agree. I'm hopeful we'll be stronger even without him. And, boy, do I hope we are because that will send an almighty message to the selfish prick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 12383 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Alex said: Apart from the short term issue of not having a striker (hopefully Wissa helps in that score soon) if Isak really is refusing to play then he might be doing us a favour from the point of view breaching his contract and his not having a leg to stand on legally. He’s been unbelievably poorly advised here. Not saying it’s not massively his fault too. I was thinking about this last night when it was too fucking hot to sleep. The average footballer won't possess the necessary skills themselves for contract & legal negotiation. Their expertise is in what happens on the pitch. When you look at what happened in the 70s to the careers of the likes of Bobby Moore, it's quite evident that footballers needed to be represented professionally. Agents have become a necessary evil of sorts. But they need independent regulation to ensure they are working in the best interests of the client they're representing. I don't believe the bloke representing Isak is operating in his best interests. I think he's operating purely on the basis of personal financial gain. Up until the Celtic friendly, Isak's value was worth more than it ever had been previously but importantly, he had the potential to become even more of a valuable asset. The actions around that weekend and subsequently means his value will never again be as elevated as it was. His stock is falling - currently it's falling off a cliff and will continue to do so until he changes his position and falls back into line. Ex-players appear to have a consistent view of the landscape - Isak is behaving appallingly and NUFC must remain firm and not fold to the demands - the footballing world is closing ranks in this unanimous view. The only people who seem to have a different viewpoint are 'dye-in-the-wool' scousers desperate to see him in their shirt, and Isak's representation. He is undoubtedly being poorly advised, but more importantly he's being failed by the people who are supposed to be working in his best interests. He's heading full speed towards the scene of the accident where his value and profile will plummet, along with his reputation - which I think is already irreparably damaged and his world cup ambitions will lie in tatters. His biggest mistake is he didn't immediately fire his agent when this started to go south, but then he most likely was fed enough spin to be convinced his agent was continuing to work in his best interests and was poorly encouraged to double, triple, quadruple down. Independent regulation of football agents is needed. Another suggestion perhaps is a Contracts Recognition Board whereby all player contracts are held in escrow by an independent body and any disputes / need for clarity can be provided as such. The Celtic game was on 19th July. It's just 25 days ago. How the mighty has fallen, and so bloody quickly as well. Edited August 13 by Craig 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 8362 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, Craig said: I was thinking about this last night when it was too fucking hot to sleep. The average footballer won't possess the necessary skills themselves for contract & legal negotiation. Their expertise is in what happens on the pitch. When you look at what happened in the 70s to the careers of the likes of Bobby Moore, it's quite evident that footballers needed to be represented professional. Agents have become a necessary evil of sorts. But they need independent regulation to ensure they are working in the best interests of the client they're representing. I don't believe the bloke representing Isak is operating in his best interests. I think he's operating purely on the basis of personal financial gain. Up until the Celtic friendly, Isak's value was worth more than it ever had been previously but importantly, he had the potential to become even more of a valuable asset. The actions around that weekend and subsequently means his value will never again be as elevated as it was. His stock is falling - currently it's falling off a cliff and will continue to do so until he changes his position and falls back into line. Ex-players appear to have a consistent view of the landscape - Isak is behaving appallingly and NUFC must remain firm and not fold to the demands - the footballing world is closing ranks in this unanimous view. The only people who seem to have a different viewpoint are 'dye-in-the-wool' scousers desperate to see him in their shirt, and Isak's representation. He is undoubtedly being poorly advised, but more importantly he's being failed by the people who are supposed to be working in his best interests. He's head full speed towards the scene of an accident where his value and profile will plummet, along with his reputation - which I think is already irreparably damaged and his world cup ambitions will lie in tatters. His biggest mistake is he didn't immediately fire his agent when this started to go south, but then he most likely was fed enough spin to be convinced his agent was continuing to work in his best interests and was poorly encouraged to double, triple, quadruple down. Independent regulation of football agents is needed. Another suggestion perhaps is a Contracts Recognition Board whereby all player contracts are held in escrow by an independent body and any disputes / need for clarity can be provided as such. The Celtic game was on 19th July. It's just 25 days ago. How the mighty has fallen, and so bloody quickly as well. I reckon that's spot on - and the point about his value falling is a good observation also. That doesn't just hurt us, it hurts him - Liverpool could probably offer him 50k a week less now and he'd still have to take it because he's left himself no options and made a tit of himself in the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 10613 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 27 minutes ago, Renton said: Football would be wise to ban or at least heavily regulate and register these agents. They are a bugger problem than what PSR has been invented to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosco 1133 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 13 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said: If we get two strikers in by end of window then he is gone. Im sticking with that. In an ideal world without PSR we’d let the twat rot in reserves 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 12383 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Just now, Rayvin said: I reckon that's spot on - and the point about his value falling is a good observation also. That doesn't just hurt us, it hurts him - Liverpool could probably offer him 50k a week less now and he'd still have to take it because he's left himself no options and made a tit of himself in the process. As was said by McCoist yesterday - if he'd acted in the right manner he could be on the verge of getting his dream move along with a signing-on fee of astronomic proportions. But he didn't. He'll reach a point in time where that reality will dawn on him. He's not there yet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 8362 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 How has he even ended up with this shyster of an agent anyway man, surely someone of his stature could have done better than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 12383 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 He had two reasonable choices IF he wanted to explore a move away from the club: 1. Inform the club that he'd like to explore his transfer options - which we know he did. 2. Submit a formal transfer request but forfeit any loyalty bonuses as a result. The only reasonable follow up options available to him in the event the club didn't entertain his wish to explore a move was either to submit the transfer request, or suck it up and get on with what he's contracted to do and perhaps negotiate an adjustment to his contract to explore an exit in an upcoming transfer window - either January 2026 or, more likely, summer 2026. Instead he elected to take the other, unreasonable option available to him - refuse to train, refuse to work with the rest of the squad and make himself unavailable for selection. He'll live to rue the day he made this specific choice. What he did before that was perfectly acceptable, even if it hadn't been popular with the club and its fanbase. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 22498 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) Can anyone tell me who his agent actually is? At the moment I have a list of three... 1. Gonzalo someone 2. Someone called Elvis 3.Some blatant Balkan mob boss who may also handle Modric? 🤷♂️ Edited August 13 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 15593 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 16 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Can anyone tell me who his agent actually is? At the moment I have a list of three... 1. Gonzalo someone 2. Someone called Elvis 3.Some blatant Balkan mob boss who may also handle Modric? 🤷♂️ The Serbian mob boss runs the agency (banned/black balled by several clubs on the continent) the other two are agents who work for him/his agency I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 27784 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 (edited) 32 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Can anyone tell me who his agent actually is? Is this a threat. They're bad dudes PL, take care. 👍 Edited August 13 by Renton 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 12383 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 32 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Can anyone tell me who his agent actually is? At the moment I have a list of three... 1. Gonzalo someone 2. Someone called Elvis 3.Some blatant Balkan mob boss who may also handle Modric? 🤷♂️ According Craig Hope, it’s this cunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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