Alexander Isak

[Alex 42149]

9 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Btw, daughter said this was our starting line up 4 years ago today, just in case people are getting too depressed for the start of the season

 

 

Genuinely forgot some of them ever played for us  

it’s a bit like how there were about four years between Gazza going to Spurs and KK’s second coming but it felt more like fourteen years 

[Craig 12383]

10 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Btw, daughter said this was our starting line up 4 years ago today, just in case people are getting too depressed for the start of the season

 

 

Muphy at RB, Schar & Joelinton on the bench. 

Bruce was a fucking genius! What this does demonstrate what an incredible job Howe did when he inherited the job 3 months later. Sure we did well to add Tripps, Burn & Bruno but seriously ... what an abysmal squad we had.

[Craig 12383]

Slot, in interview with Sky has admitted they need 1 more attacker and has stated he's open to the idea of Ekitike playing as a number 9 alongside another number 9. 

That's about as close as we'll get to him admitting they're coming back in for Isak. My guess is we'll be going into the Leeds game that weekend with a bid on the table. 

[trophyshy 9004]

TWO number 9s?  Like the fucking buses here.  

[Ayatollah Hermione 17238]

57 minutes ago, Alex said:

Genuinely forgot some of them ever played for us  

it’s a bit like how there were about four years between Gazza going to Spurs and KK’s second coming but it felt more like fourteen years 

Hendrick, man  A player so beyond help that Eddie Howe decided to turn Joelinton into a midfielder rather than pick him

[Diego21 2465]

@Alex @Toonpack @wykikitoon

 

Players don't do it because the justice system is very slow, and that messes up their careers and market deadlines. But they would win almost every case.

 

A few years ago, an Athletic Club player with a €30 million release clause went to Real Sociedad for free (his contract was ending, but Athletic could have renewed the young player's contract).

 

Athletic Club sued, requested €30 million, and six months later the court ruled that the clause was unfair and only worth €5 million.

Football has exorbitant prices. It's not serious that there are players with €1 billion clauses. Or players earning €500,000 a year with €100 million clauses. There's no logical connection.

 

Another case occurred with Cristiano Ronaldo. He wanted to leave Real Madrid, and Florentino Pérez told him no for less than €1 billion, which was his clause. Cristiano threatened to sue Real Madrid, and Florentino knew the courts would go against him. What was the value of a 35-36-year-old footballer? So he agreed to let him leave for 'only' €100 million.

 

When I say Isak would win his case, I don't mean the court would let him leave for free. I mean the court would weigh the player's value against his earnings, the years he has left on his contract, and the amortization... And perhaps rule that he should be priced at around €70 million (what we paid for him).

Edited August 15 by Diego21

[ewerk 39233]

6 minutes ago, Diego21 said:

@Alex @Toonpack @wykikitoon

 

Players don't do it because the justice system is very slow, and that messes up their careers and market deadlines. But they would win almost every case.

 

A few years ago, an Athletic Club player with a €30 million release clause went to Real Sociedad for free (his contract was ending, but Athletic could have renewed the young player's contract).

 

Athletic Club sued, requested €30 million, and six months later the court ruled that the clause was unfair and only worth €5 million.

Football has exorbitant prices. It's not serious that there are players with €1 billion clauses. Or players earning €500,000 a year with €100 million clauses. There's no logical connection.

 

Another case occurred with Cristiano Ronaldo. He wanted to leave Real Madrid, and Florentino Pérez told him no for less than €1 billion, which was his clause. Cristiano threatened to sue Real Madrid, and Florentino knew the courts would go against him. What was the value of a 35-36-year-old footballer? So he agreed to let him leave for 'only' €100 million.

 

When I say Isak would win his case, I don't mean the court would let him leave for free. I mean the court would weigh the player's value against his earnings, the years he has left on his contract, and the amortization... And perhaps rule that he should be priced at around €70 million (what we paid for him).

 

The Spanish legal system is different to the UK one though. There is no requirement here for release clauses in contracts.

[Alex 42149]

I also think they’d hold onto his registration for the next three years before they let him leave for c. £70m 

[Diego21 2465]

Just now, ewerk said:

 

The Spanish legal system is different to the UK one though. There is no requirement here for release clauses in contracts.

No, Ewerk. In Spain, there's no requirement for a release clause either.

 

What I wanted to point out yesterday is that Isak has a value based on the money he makes, the money he earns, his position at the club, his age, his performance, etc., etc., etc. (Isak and all athletes in the world, and even any normal working person like us).

 

If Isak goes to court with an offer from Liverpool of £100 million (for example) and claims that somehow the club isn't allowing him to leave and that he's being "kidnapped" (not the real word, but I struggle to express it) because the club either won't let him leave or lets him leave at an exorbitant price, that scenario could perfectly exist even if there are no release clauses.

 

(Or Isak could simply break his contract, sign for Liverpool, and over the years, a court could rule that Liverpool has to pay us whatever the amount. That's what happened with the players who left Sporting Portugal when the fans attacked them (Podence, Rui Patricio, Gelson Martins...), it happened with Lass Diarra, etc., etc., etc.).

 

It's very difficult for that to happen because justice is slow (years), but some cases have occurred all over the world (not just in Spain).

Last year, the European Court of Justice ruled that FIFA's regulations were incorrect when they referred to abusive prices and forced them to change some parameters.

 

I'm not saying this will happen, but I was saying that if Isak becomes a really, really stupid person, I would take him to the extreme and I wouldn't mind if it happened if it meant missing many months in the stands during the best sporting moment of his life.

[ewerk 39233]

14 minutes ago, Diego21 said:

No, Ewerk. In Spain, there's no requirement for a release clause either.

 

What I wanted to point out yesterday is that Isak has a value based on the money he makes, the money he earns, his position at the club, his age, his performance, etc., etc., etc. (Isak and all athletes in the world, and even any normal working person like us).

 

If Isak goes to court with an offer from Liverpool of £100 million (for example) and claims that somehow the club isn't allowing him to leave and that he's being "kidnapped" (not the real word, but I struggle to express it) because the club either won't let him leave or lets him leave at an exorbitant price, that scenario could perfectly exist even if there are no release clauses.

 

(Or Isak could simply break his contract, sign for Liverpool, and over the years, a court could rule that Liverpool has to pay us whatever the amount. That's what happened with the players who left Sporting Portugal when the fans attacked them (Podence, Rui Patricio, Gelson Martins...), it happened with Lass Diarra, etc., etc., etc.).

 

It's very difficult for that to happen because justice is slow (years), but some cases have occurred all over the world (not just in Spain).

Last year, the European Court of Justice ruled that FIFA's regulations were incorrect when they referred to abusive prices and forced them to change some parameters.

 

I'm not saying this will happen, but I was saying that if Isak becomes a really, really stupid person, I would take him to the extreme and I wouldn't mind if it happened if it meant missing many months in the stands during the best sporting moment of his life.

 

In Spain pretty much every player has a release contract because of Royal Decree 1006, is that not correct?

 

Isak is under contract, we own his registration for the next three years. If we decide that he isn't available for selection because of his attitude then we're well within our rights to send him to the reserves for that period. He can't simply decided unilaterally to sign for Liverpool as the FA hold his registration and will not transfer the player to Liverpool without our permission. There's no concept in law of him being kidnapped or enslaved. He freely signed his contract, we've upheld our end by paying him etc. so there is simply no getting out of it, the option for players to buy out their own contracts doesn't exist in England.

Edited August 15 by ewerk

[Diego21 2465]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

 

In Spain pretty much every player has a release contract because of Royal Decree 1006, is that not correct?

 

Isak is under contract, we own his registration for the next three years. If we decide that he isn't available for selection because of his attitude then we're well within our rights to send him to the reserves for that period. He can't simply decided unilaterally to sign for Liverpool as the FA hold his registration and will not transfer the player to Liverpool without our permission. There's no concept in law of him being kidnapped or enslaved. He freely signed his contract, we've upheld our end by paying him etc. so there is simply no getting out of it, the option for players to buy out their own contracts doesn't exist in England.

Royal Decree 1006  says that players must have a release price and be able to unilaterally terminate their contract, either through a release clause or a price set by a court. (But this is also what the European Court has ruled in all the cases in which it has intervened. Workers have the right to a release price, and it cannot be abusive [Last year, FIFA even used the word "exslave" in its ruling on the Lass Diarra case].)
 

Almost all teams and players have clauses in Spain, but they are not mandatory. For example, Athletic Club doesn't have them (I believe only Nico Williams managed to get one if a top-flight team wanted to sign him).

[ewerk 39233]

7 minutes ago, Diego21 said:

 Workers have the right to a release price, and it cannot be abusive

 

Not here they don't. The Diarra case centred on international transfers rather than domestic transfers. Christmas Tree didn't vote for Brexit just so some unelected judge in Luxembourg can force us to sell Isak to Liverpool.  

[Alex 42149]

At last, a Brexit bonus 

[Renton 27784]

You're telling me there is ...... a Brexit benefit?

 

[Toonpack 15593]

Bottom line, we are willing to play him, he is refusing, so he is in breach of his contract, the penalties for that are laid out in the contract - 2 weeks wages for each breach.

 

He has zero hope of any legal remedy, he signed a contract freely, it has three years to run, there is nothing onerous in the contract, it's identical to every other players contracts in terms of clauses (I didn't know that until I read Borson's piece).

 

Even if he brought a legal case he would have to be able to demonstrate he'd acted reasonably and that the club didn't - given the circumstances, good luck with that.

[Toonpack 15593]

@Diego21 Read this:

 

https://stefanborson.substack.com/p/the-final-isact?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1780285&post_id=170761047&utm_campaign=email-post-

 

[Diego21 2465]

7 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

@Diego21 Read this:

 

https://stefanborson.substack.com/p/the-final-isact?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1780285&post_id=170761047&utm_campaign=email-post-

 

So much the better.

Let him spend all the time in the world in the stands until some club gives us 140-150 million.

[Craig 12383]

12 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

Bottom line, we are willing to play him, he is refusing

Are we? Open to interpretation but I'd say right now it's most likely a mutual understanding. He doesn't wish to play but given his current conduct, I don't think Howe wants him anywhere near the squad. 

The subject of fining him I think probably comes down to not being available for selection for a competitive match for reasons that haven't been explicitly been permitted by the club.

[Toonpack 15593]

BTW CN, posted the below in March:

 

 

[The Fish 12574]

He's right as often as I am.

[Toonpack 15593]

1 minute ago, Craig said:

Are we? Open to interpretation but I'd say right now it's most likely a mutual understanding. He doesn't wish to play but given his current conduct, I don't think Howe wants him anywhere near the squad. 

The subject of fining him I think probably comes down to not being available for selection for a competitive match for reasons that haven't been explicitly been permitted by the club.

 

Of course he's refusing to play and I'd be amazed if he said to Eddie, I'll play at the weekend and we said fuck off. They'll treat it that way until the window shuts, similarly I doubt they'll fine him (as they could) before then either.

[Renton 27784]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

He's right as often as I am.

 

Twice a day like a broken clock?

Edited August 15 by Renton

[Dazzler 16199]

Just now, Renton said:

 

Twice a day with a broken cock?

Impressive

[Renton 27784]

Just now, Dazzler said:

Impressive

 

Happened to me once and that's not the adjective I'd use.

[Christmas Tree 6697]

Hopefully we get rid, but if not he should be sent through the streets of Newcastle, bollock naked, shame GOT style.