General Random Conversation..

[PaddockLad 14585]

bait laid, accusing posters of being "stupid"

[Christmas Tree 3997]

bait laid, accusing posters of being "stupid"

And as for those believing ANYTHING snake oil salesman Salmond has to say..........

[NJS 3978]

There is no alternative to saving the NHS other than to privatise more of it. No government can throw endless money at it which is why both main parties will continue to privatise bits of it.

 

When my mother was a nurse geriatric patients regularly "lived" on wards for many years until their death. For decades now the private sector has taken over this care role which is why we have so many private care homes.

 

Pretending one party or the other is going to halt the inevitable is stupid.

I oould set in place a complete fix for the NHS with one peice of legislation - the abolition and prohibition of all private healthcare in this country. If the rich had to use it the money would be found in a metaphorical two seconds flat.

 

(Before it's suggested anyone going abroad to circumvent the ban would lose their citizenship)

[PaddockLad 14585]

youre not getting me CT, try Ant, he always has a nibble

[Kid Dynamite 5908]

There is no alternative to saving the NHS other than to privatise more of it. No government can throw endless money at it which is why both main parties will continue to privatise bits of it.

 

When my mother was a nurse geriatric patients regularly "lived" on wards for many years until their death. For decades now the private sector has taken over this care role which is why we have so many private care homes.

 

Pretending one party or the other is going to halt the inevitable is stupid.

I'll bite. The NHS is purposefully being driven into the ground by the Tories, Your average daily mail reading, X factor watching member of the public (CT) Shake their head at what this venerable institution has become. Private healthcare companies come in like knights in shining armour to save the day. We get a decent level of care back but at a big cost. Tory MPs, most of whom have shares and interests in private healthcare companies, make millions whilst everyone else gets the privilege of paying through the nose for health insurance or just dies from treatable diseases if they can't afford it.

 

Privatisation 101 and 99% of the clueless nuggets like yourself lap it up

Edited August 27, 2014 by TheRollingStones

[Kid Dynamite 5908]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health

[Kid Dynamite 5908]

 

Tell me again how privatisation is the 'Only' way to save the NHS?

[JJ 0]

I know CT is a Tory so we'll get that biased rhetoric.

 

I'm a Yes supporter (have you noticed ) so I have my biased rhetoric.

 

I would like to point out I did give Better Together every possible chance to win my vote, but in all honesty it is the worst political campaign in the history of the UK, and the bigger injustice is that it might be successful. The have given no reason at all to vote no. Their entire campaign is an attempt to smear Alex Salmond. It's lazy and predictable and hiding the fact they have completely failed to make a positive case for the Union. Better Together's official facebook page last made a post that was 100% a positive case for the Union on April 30th after I had a little dig through. Yes makes the positive campaign for the future of Scotland every single day.

 

Regardless, about healthcare.

 

Scotland if it votes for independence will have it's own written constitution. In that constitution will be a guarantee of free healthcare in Scotland.

 

The only way to save the NHS between now and 2020 in the UK is to vote the Tories out. Not even Thatcher had the balls to privatise the NHS. Cameron himself made a big deal in his campaign that the NHS would be safe in Conservative hands. While the NHS has taken a hit due to Cameron's administration, it will survive beyond May 2015. But if the Tories are back in, you can kiss goodbye.

 

Labour's involvement in supporting Better Together while opposing the Tories has sent mixed messages on either side of the border that are complete contradictions. Yes, healthcare is fully devolved in Scotland, but it's funding depends on public spending calculated by the Barnett Formula. It's fairly obvious that if public spending is cut on healthcare in England, it'll affect Wales (which Mark Drakeford is openly worried about) Northern Ireland and thus, Scotland.

 

So in Wales Labour are telling us the Tories are putting immense strain on funding the NHS. In England Labour are telling us the Tories are putting immense strain on funding the NHS. But in Scotland Labour saying the exact opposite, which is completely illogical. And the argument that Scotland can allocate funds easily from elsewhere to healthcare that Labour is putting forward bases the argument on the falsehood that the block grant to Scotland is going up, which it isn't.

 

CT will probably be happy, but Labour's mixed and conflicting messages show a party in disarray that can only play into Conservative hands in 2015. Even in Scotland, there's a Labour breakaway in support for Independence that is dividing the party. Considering Scotland sent 40 of it's 59 MP's at the last general election in a Labour seat, this division isn't going to help in 2015, even if the event of a No vote.

 

Labour is a rudderless ship. The Conservatives have a vision. It's just a vision that anyone with sense cannot support.

 

And yet the likelihood is we will vote to maintain the status quo.

 

Isn't democracy great?

[Christmas Tree 3997]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health

Got to laugh at this bit from your link

 

"The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive".

[Kid Dynamite 5908]

Any response to everything else I've posted though?

[The Fish 8989]

How is CT going to afford private healthcare? He's on the breadline isn't he?

[Renton 17781]

The currency issue IS a fatal flaw for the yes campaign imo. The yes campaign seem to want their cake and eat it on just about every topic. Take the Scottish NHS. How is that going to fare without the benefits of economy of scale that being in the UK benefits from? And defence, it's clear an 'independent' Scotland would be perfectly happy to gain protection from the UK and NATO but bear little of the costs involved. It's the currency that'd the issue though. Without the BoE as guarantor they're fucked, but with it they're not really independent. It's a shambles.

 

They'll vote no but get further devolution anyway. Meanwhile the North East will be completely screwed over as usual. We deserve it tbh, we overwhelming turned down the opportunity if our own representation. No use complaining now.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I know CT is a Tory so we'll get that biased rhetoric.

 

I'm a Yes supporter (have you noticed ) so I have my biased rhetoric.

 

I would like to point out I did give Better Together every possible chance to win my vote, but in all honesty it is the worst political campaign in the history of the UK, and the bigger injustice is that it might be successful. The have given no reason at all to vote no. Their entire campaign is an attempt to smear Alex Salmond. It's lazy and predictable and hiding the fact they have completely failed to make a positive case for the Union. Better Together's official facebook page last made a post that was 100% a positive case for the Union on April 30th after I had a little dig through. Yes makes the positive campaign for the future of Scotland every single day.

 

Regardless, about healthcare.

 

Scotland if it votes for independence will have it's own written constitution. In that constitution will be a guarantee of free healthcare in Scotland.

 

The only way to save the NHS between now and 2020 in the UK is to vote the Tories out. Not even Thatcher had the balls to privatise the NHS. Cameron himself made a big deal in his campaign that the NHS would be safe in Conservative hands. While the NHS has taken a hit due to Cameron's administration, it will survive beyond May 2015. But if the Tories are back in, you can kiss goodbye.

 

Labour's involvement in supporting Better Together while opposing the Tories has sent mixed messages on either side of the border that are complete contradictions. Yes, healthcare is fully devolved in Scotland, but it's funding depends on public spending calculated by the Barnett Formula. It's fairly obvious that if public spending is cut on healthcare in England, it'll affect Wales (which Mark Drakeford is openly worried about) Northern Ireland and thus, Scotland.

 

So in Wales Labour are telling us the Tories are putting immense strain on funding the NHS. In England Labour are telling us the Tories are putting immense strain on funding the NHS. But in Scotland Labour saying the exact opposite, which is completely illogical. And the argument that Scotland can allocate funds easily from elsewhere to healthcare that Labour is putting forward bases the argument on the falsehood that the block grant to Scotland is going up, which it isn't.

 

CT will probably be happy, but Labour's mixed and conflicting messages show a party in disarray that can only play into Conservative hands in 2015. Even in Scotland, there's a Labour breakaway in support for Independence that is dividing the party. Considering Scotland sent 40 of it's 59 MP's at the last general election in a Labour seat, this division isn't going to help in 2015, even if the event of a No vote.

 

Labour is a rudderless ship. The Conservatives have a vision. It's just a vision that anyone with sense cannot support.

 

And yet the likelihood is we will vote to maintain the status quo.

 

Isn't democracy great?

 

I must admit to not having taken a great deal of interest in this campaign. I did watch the last debate and found it a bit depressing that these two blokes were basically the I formation sources for the masses on such a historical matter.

 

Darling is a bit of a wet blanket yes man and Salmond has always made my skin crawl (and I'm a Tory)

 

As for your Scottish points the bottom line is Salmond / the yes campaign are promising jam tomorrow. They're selling a dream and seem to be promising everything to anyone. That's bound to sound sexier than the no campaign , who boringly are trying to hammer home that having a successful viable economy is the bedrock of all else.

 

You can write whatever you like into a constitution but as every family working to a budget knows, if income goes down cuts have to be made. To continue to pay for one service others must be cut.

 

Basically a whole country is risking its stability on Salmonds fag packet calculations to be President.

[Renton 17781]

There is no alternative to saving the NHS other than to privatise more of it. No government can throw endless money at it which is why both main parties will continue to privatise bits of it.

 

When my mother was a nurse geriatric patients regularly "lived" on wards for many years until their death. For decades now the private sector has taken over this care role which is why we have so many private care homes.

 

Pretending one party or the other is going to halt the inevitable is stupid.

I don't see how it's possible to continue decent universal care without retaining the nhs as it is. We don't spend that much GDP per capita compared to other countries. Look at this.

 

http://totalassist.co.uk/nhs-best-healthcare-system-in-the-world/

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Any response to everything else I've posted though?

Not when you are just posting garbage man. There's but a dag paper between torys and labour on this. There's just not enough money which is why the likes of Nice has pick and choose which drugs people can get.

 

You seem to be leaping in a few years from privatisation of services to little Billy having to pay for his tonsils out. All politicians want it free at the point of use.

 

And all of this rhetoric when we have a Tory coalition that for the last 4 years has put more money into the NHS than labour promised too if they'd won in 2010.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I don't see how it's possible to continue decent universal care without retaining the nhs as it is. We don't spend that much GDP per capita compared to other countries. Look at this.

 

http://totalassist.co.uk/nhs-best-healthcare-system-in-the-world/

My point is services have being getting privatised off for years and like the example I gave, a lot make sense. If things like private care homes free up money to keep more stuff free, the better.

 

You should know better than most through your nice days that there simply isn't enough money to pay for everything you would want to in an ideal world.

 

It's a shame we can't nationalise the drug companies!

[The Fish 8989]

This is my problem CT, it's not about Party politics, it's about saving the NHS. Tories, Labour, Lib Dem, they should all be made well aware that losing the NHS is a fucking disgrace and the fault of politicians lining their own politics, more than any fault on behalf of the staff.

 

You'd rather score points than address the actual issue.

[Renton 17781]

Not when you are just posting garbage man. There's but a dag paper between torys and labour on this. There's just not enough money which is why the likes of Nice has pick and choose which drugs people can get.

 

You seem to be leaping in a few years from privatisation of services to little Billy having to pay for his tonsils out. All politicians want it free at the point of use.

 

And all of this rhetoric when we have a Tory coalition that for the last 4 years has put more money into the NHS than labour promised too if they'd won in 2010.

NICE Was formed under Labour and represents the fairest system in the world for sharing limited healthcare resources regardless of ability to pay. Look at the US alternative. The NHS was also Labour's invention of course. I don't know any Tories who could claim with a straight face its constitution (absolutely socialist) is safer under them than Labour. It's pure hypocrisy, at best. I'd rather you lot were honest.

[Renton 17781]

My point is services have being getting privatised off for years and like the example I gave, a lot make sense. If things like private care homes free up money to keep more stuff free, the better.

 

You should know better than most through your nice days that there simply isn't enough money to pay for everything you would want to in an ideal world.

 

It's a shame we can't nationalise the drug companies!

No, the point is why fix what's not broken?

The list of Tories with vested interests in privatisation and their hatred of socialism might be a clue.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Watching Cirque De Peking on Sky Arts. Amazing how much stuff a human is capable off but most of us never achieve.

 

Lucy'esque

[Christmas Tree 3997]

This is my problem CT, it's not about Party politics, it's about saving the NHS. Tories, Labour, Lib Dem, they should all be made well aware that losing the NHS is a fucking disgrace and the fault of politicians lining their own politics, more than any fault on behalf of the staff.

 

You'd rather score points than address the actual issue.

Surely we are making the same point?

 

All political parties are in favour of privatising services as they have demonstrated. My only beef is with people who think it's just the "evil Tories".

 

Like you I would love everything to be free and state run etc etc.

 

The difference is I tend to understand that you can't do everything with a limited income which is why me and you arnt living in Belgravia and driving Bentleys.

 

You cut your cloth to what you can afford.

 

Politicians simply pull our heartstrings and play on things but little changes.

 

It would be an interesting experiment to lay a five year budget out live on TV and get society to vote on where money was spent and cut.

 

Sadly human nature would be laid bare imo.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

NICE Was formed under Labour and represents the fairest system in the world for sharing limited healthcare resources regardless of ability to pay. Look at the US alternative. The NHS was also Labour's invention of course. I don't know any Tories who could claim with a straight face its constitution (absolutely socialist) is safer under them than Labour. It's pure hypocrisy, at best. I'd rather you lot were honest.

My point is Nice has to tell some cancer patients, "sorry, we can't afford to keep you alive a bit longer because we can't afford to".

[Christmas Tree 3997]

NICE Was formed under Labour and represents the fairest system in the world for sharing limited healthcare resources regardless of ability to pay. Look at the US alternative. The NHS was also Labour's invention of course. I don't know any Tories who could claim with a straight face its constitution (absolutely socialist) is safer under them than Labour. It's pure hypocrisy, at best. I'd rather you lot were honest.

I could be wrong, (unusual), but I think you'll find the NHS was a Tory invention, nicked by labour.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

No, the point is why fix what's not broken?

The list of Tories with vested interests in privatisation and their hatred of socialism might be a clue.

It's continually getting "fixed" man!!!

 

Do you think we should get all the geriatrics in private care homes back to live on wards???:

[Park Life 70]

It's all bollocks about us not being able to afford it....UK is the 6th richest country on the planet. This mantra is just conditioning that has been drip fed for the last couple of decades...It's patent nonsense. We spend 55m a day on the EU...

Edited August 27, 2014 by Park Life