Meenzer

That's why I think focusing on the fear factor is counterproductive; we can suspect (and I'm reasonably sure Brexit would do us more than a little harm - Paris and Frankfurt are already rubbing their hands) but we can't know. I'd love to see it framed more in terms of the positive side of the concept, i.e. even *if* we accept it doesn't matter hugely either way at a financial level, the question is whether we want to shape and be part of the greatest peacetime project of the continent where we actually live, exercising the role of a world power, or not. But of course you can't frame it like that because too many people have been conditioned to be suspicious of "Europe". In any case, Brexit just feels like a massive lack of ambition - insular in every sense - and I think we should be better than that as a country in the modern world, so that's at the heart of me voting remain as much as any economic considerations really. Also my mam's Swedish and she'd smack me.

I'm starting to think we might shoulder-shrug our way into leaving. The arguments on either side are so relatively unprovable that I don't see why it'd motivate don't-knows to move in either direction, and those who want to leave are more likely to get out there and do it. Hoping for a late move towards safety and the status quo à la Scotland, but we'll see...

I can get behind that. It'll be more sanitised now but hopefully the edges shouldn't have been blunted too much yet. Meanwhile, I've just booked a few days in southwest Wales starting from the day after the EU referendum. Not intentional timing, but if it does all go tits up, it might be best to be tramping round some deserted coves in the middle of nowhere with only some seabirds to shout at.

Obvious error right there

Needless to say, I am devastated by this turn of events. Consoling myself with this comprehensive A-Z guide to all the bullshit written about Yoorop in the British media over the years. http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

(just because it keeps popping into my head every time I read this thread)

"Dave, our John Lewis gift list clearly said cutlery..."

They tend to be shite too these days, but aye, it helped in 1994 anyway

Oh I don't know:

My attitude towards England in tournaments remains the same - support us while we're in, laugh at distraught southerners when we crash out.

Savile envy.

Or to put it another way: "And the real left reason for leaving is a pretty bleak one to try to sell: Let’s try to get one arm out of this straitjacket before the shooting starts isn’t ever going to look great on the side of a battle bus. The left saw what Europe did to Greece and despite that, they want to stay, like a Scout group on Jim’ll Fix It determined to still enjoy meeting Kim Wilde." http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/brexit-referendum-campaigns-politicians

Stevie just won't be told.

Sounds like my kind of guy.

If North Korea had money... http://varlamov.ru/1749635.html

https://tompride.wordpress.com/2016/05/28/the-great-eu-debate-boris-johnson-vs-boris-johnson/

Taste in comedy is no laughing matter.

Fuck me, Sofia actually won. Anyone here ever been?

Who are you and what have you done with Stevie?

Voting is underway to decide the destination for our annual off-season Eurovision shindig later in the year. Final round is between Madrid, Zagreb, Malaga, Sofia, Riga, Malta, Bucharest and Belgrade. The only ones I particularly want to go to are the ones I've been to before. Suppose Sofia and Bucharest would at least be dirt-cheap.

WB Noelie

I think it's because it's a better fixture than Hull.