Toonpack

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately. You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart. Indeed but i was just pointing out its not a fact yet, its a strong opinion based argument. Not being defensive, just absolutely cant abide Dolly's post saying that Hamman got sold for re-sale value (and because he fell out with the manager) just like Tiote "will be" (apart from the manager bit) but selling Hamann was alright because they were proper 'football men'. Its empty, meaningless nonsense that proves nothing unless you want to read things into it. Which you cant really. The better debate is who was the better footballer and potentially who has the bigger cock. maybe the debate is about who is the better footballer, but like all threads [or even daft NO type polls], it becomes more than that even without going down the usual predictable channel. Tiote is not sold yet, but - calling a spade a spade - do YOU think he will be sold to maximise his value, and when it happens, do YOU think the manager will have a say in the matter, and do YOU think the manager will be handed the fee to build on his team and continue trying to improve it d[albeit after being deliberately seriously weakened against his wishes]. You can see this point, you know you can, you are just deliberately not answering it, and you know damn well - like the other Ashley apologists ie Toonpack, jaysouthernmag, CT, ewerk etc, what is going to happen. The point about Dolly's post is that Hamman fell out with the manager, so they backed their manager and allowed him to replace a good player in the best way possible according to the judgement of the manager by allowing him the funds from the sale. That is what "football men" do. Its the first time you've asked me, the answers are: i strongly suspect that is what is happening, the manager will have some sort of say but probably along the lines of answering 'can we get top 10 without him?' not final say and no, not all of it but i suspect he will get more than £3.5m to replace Tiote (which is where the interesting angle sits). For me, answering any questions like that is straightforward. I dont need to jump through hoops or contort arguments to suit an agenda as i treat the change in our circumstances as a fact of life, one that would be great to change but thats easier said than done. The strategy for the football club is constrained by its finances, whether we are aiming for 6th or 8th is a fine point of debate but not one i will get me knickers in a twist about. Assuming Tiote wanted to leave, lets say for the same reasons as Hamann for the sake of argument without getting drawn into the reasons why, if he gets 20m for Tiote, Pardew should get 20m to spend on the team as he sees fit, if the club has serious ambitions to progress. You do see this don't you ? Not a penny less. This has not happened with the sale of Carroll, and if it happens again, nobody not even you, can make a case for the club being a selling club again any longer. In my opinion, I think this will happen, whether the next big sale is Tiote, Colocinni or Krul, it is going to happen. You know it, I know it, Toonpack knows it, everybody knows it. So why pretend you don't ? And why pretend it isn't the final nail in the optimistic coffin that some of you are persisting in carrying around ? And in that, it's absolutely no different to just about everyone else. We are not a "special case", although some seem to be special needs.

as an aside, the ball in for #5 was a thing of rare beauty

are you really 38 ? When did you start supporting Newcastle ? Yep, I also posted when and why in a previous thread although that has absolutely nothing to do with you de railing threads with your constant ramblings you have the knowledge and outlook of an 8 year old. You only think its "derailing" because you don't agree. What i say will stand the test of time. Just me?? You really are mental anyone who seriously thinks Mike Ashley will ever match the Halls and Shepherd is mental chum. Anyone who can't see the game has fundamentaly changed and the "Halls (Dougie) and Shepherd" could never have matched the "Hall (SJH)" years is similarly mental.

like relegation ? And still waiting for a european qualification via league position ? Well done. sacking SBR was much much lower than relegation. where did we finish in the 2nd division/championship, after "Shepherd" sacked SBR, as he was running the club all on his own with less than 30% of the shares ? Have we all blinked and missed something Yes you did. You must have blinked and missed my post last week, in an answer to you btw, about Chairman/CEO and the irrelevance of shareholding and it's influence in day to day control, either that or you're just a bit dim.

Not sure what you mean by that. If we win, then it shows we have depth but if we lose, we lack depth? Yet the depth of a squad is not affected by a result. I think you mean its a test of the quality we have in depth. In which case i agree. We could be playing our 4th and 5th Choices at CH, with the added likely disruption to the full back position(s), plus our 3rd choice holding midfielder. When you get down in that area of a squad it would be a challenge for anyone. It's a test of the squad to a depth you would rarely ordinarily get to tbh, you're basically playing your 4th choice "heart of the team" how often does that happen.

He's a professional footballer and they, like professional managers, know inestimable amounts more than ANY football fan, any fan who thinks otherwise is deluded. That said, Perch could do with being significantly upgraded, BUT, I'm not sure what sort of upgrade you could realistically get who would be content to be 4th choice CB. How many teams have a great 4th choice player at any position. Are you saying Nile Ranger knows more about football than me? We haven't got a great 3rd choice centre half let alone 4th you fool. I wouldn't count Ranger as a very professional footballer, but based on many of your rants, he probably does tbh, even when gangsta'd up. Perch is OUR 4th choice CB and who does (outside of the moneybags) have a great 3rd/4th choice player at any position and what sort of player "should" we be after in Stevie world. Remember you're talking about a player "we should have bought last summer" to back up Taylor/Colo and therefore be happy to sit on his arse. Go on, giz a realistic list because I seriously doubt a "significant" upgrade over Williamson/Perch would be happy with that role.

He's a professional footballer and they, like professional managers, know inestimable amounts more than ANY football fan, any fan who thinks otherwise is deluded. That said, Perch could do with being significantly upgraded, BUT, I'm not sure what sort of upgrade you could realistically get who would be content to be 4th choice CB. How many teams have a great 4th choice player at any position.

Perch was at fault because he allowed Drogba to have a free (unchallenged) header inside the six yard box. ..and in case you missed it, most of the players thought it was our throw-in. So you can forgive any player, who's not on the fans shit list, trying to lose his man, only to be caught out of position. Tidied

Tiote would dee a job at centre back imo. I predicted all of this on Steve Wraith's show 0:59 onwards here http://itunes.apple....ith/id330790262 26/9/11 that this would all happen, and it was squarely down to Ashley being a prick. I even made the point at some point we'd have to rely on Perch and this isn't acceptable. It's a disaster and what makes it worse is, we'd have picked up points on Saturday had it not been Drogba v Perch. More than ever this fat bastard has pissed me off, does he not fuckin understand football? Any decent centre half would have done as back up, Perch is League One standard, and this has been like a car crash waiting to happen for ages. Or red v yellow, or Cabaye v Mata. Perch did OK apart from the goal, Cabaye gets a free pass, when equally culpable (for losing Mata) because he's Cabaye.

Thanks Ref, cunt

Agree 100%, it's laughable. oooh it was early in the game bollocks!!!! I guess if someone nutted another player in the first minute that'd be OK an all. It's not like it's a fucking subjective situation or open to interpretation, last man is last man, whether the attacker did/didn't/couldn't play the fucking ball is irrelevant. Shocking, shocking decision, or rather lack of a decision.

And the reaction, should said overconfidence be missplaced, will be equally "over"

What a surprise. There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing. No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly. Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash. The lack of accountability is staggering. Tit. So having a 5 minute chat in the morning is taking the piss, but spending work time to bitch about a colleague on a football message board isn't? I've just finished 9 years working for a private company on a public tender. During that time I could pretty much do what I liked, including post on here all day, which you would have known if you were around here a few years back. I could work at home when I liked, come and go as I pleased, and wear what I liked. I was however incredibly productive because my career was part of my life and my morale was great - I loved my job. I now work in the public sector proper, and although I have some flexibility in my work times (I still, and always have, work far longer than my contracted hours), which is usual for most professionals, my work conditions are much stricter, including this place being blocked. I am allowed to chat like. Am I more productive? Am I fuck. Before you point out wyki was complaining about his colleagues poor work standards, do you honestly believe her work quality is down to her 5 minute chats? What a load of bollocks. There might be some truth in it if she worked on the factory floor, but that's clearly not the case here. If what wyki says is true, it sounds she's not up to the job, end of. Fwiw, I've had similar problems with a colleague work before. When I failed to manage it directly, and when it got to the stage I was worried it was damaging our companies reputation, I pointed out my concerns to the boss. Simple, the guy in question resigned the next week and I got a shit load of brownie points to boot. Wyki, just do what you think feels right, use your judgement and not the collective knowledge of this board ffs! No, but coming in late and THEN having a chat before doing anything else, is. I would also add, I never said "her" work quality was down to her chats btw. The job itself is "in trouble" do you think her lateness and chats help ??

What a surprise. There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing. No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly. Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash. The lack of accountability is staggering. By the same token you want to see how much private sector firms take the piss when they've got their snouts in public sector contracts. Wanting to renegotiate contracts every five minutes too after they've pitched tenders too low just to get their snouts in said trough. And that's coming from someone who's largely very cynical of the public sector. Oh undoubtedly, but that's because it has been a soft touch, a big private sector company would rarely get away with it on another, they'd be told "tough shit, fuck off". The Public sector needs to grow a pair, at all levels. Aye, I agree fwiw. There's more holding to ransom goes on though with public sector contracts though because it has a moral imperative to deliver, unlike the private sector. Which is the essential difference. Private sector workers will bust a gut to save their jobs, it's just pure self interest and survival instinct, they're not higher beings. Don't think you can instill the same in the public sector because it's patently obvious that isn't a commercial reality of the job. People aren't thick so you can't artificially manufacture that, you can only weed out the dickheads. People will always be more motivated to protect themselves (their jobs) ie private sector before they start doing 'altruistic' things for others ie public sector. There is no bigger motivator than self interest, but it simply can't exist in the public sector in anywhere like the same way. It needs to be though. Not all the Public Sector is "alturistic" which is the problem. Doctors, Nurses, Police, Fire, and the like, deserve a hell of a lot more than they get and should be protected. The more "departmental" environments are where reality needs to bite, if a department is failing, outsource it and shut it down. The country cannot afford the waste.

I never said it was You accept that in a working day, you're likely to get about 80% productivity, as a general rule,which allows for "chatting time"etc. coming in late and then chatting for additional time, before even looking at your work is undoubtedly "taking the piss". Especially if the job is behind/in trouble as Wiki described.

What a surprise. There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing. No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly. Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash. The lack of accountability is staggering. By the same token you want to see how much private sector firms take the piss when they've got their snouts in public sector contracts. Wanting to renegotiate contracts every five minutes too after they've pitched tenders too low just to get their snouts in said trough. And that's coming from someone who's largely very cynical of the public sector. Oh undoubtedly, but that's because it has been a soft touch, a big private sector company would rarely get away with it on another, they'd be told "tough shit, fuck off". The Public sector needs to grow a pair, at all levels.

What a surprise. There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing. No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly. Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash. The lack of accountability is staggering.

You in the public sector by any chance ???? Wiki, on the surface, you HAVE to escalate it, if the job turns to shit, you're in the shit anyway, best raise it and get it sorted. At least you'll be "in control of the shit" going off so can manage the situation better. I take it you have a diary/log of all the previous attempts at fixing it ?? But, you need to balance the ramifications on you of sorting it out, against the ramifications on you of the job turning to shit. Therein will lie your answer.

Nailed on it's true. As I said at the time, Joey (and McKay) "played a blinder". That said, I suspect he was hoping that it would be someone "higher" than QPR who would come in for him when it became apparent no-one would pay a fee.

The place goes to the league I believe, not the loser.

Really ?? Those poor downtrodded footballers, eh? From what I've read/heard the players don't get the traditional "win" bonuses anymore, the bonus is an end of year thing based on league position and is on a sliding scale for ALL staff.

The black Obertan. A cheap punt v a £10 Million punt. One word of caution though Thiery Henry looked utter cack for a lot of his first season.

2nd'ed (on the no vote as well, just for clarity)

Thanks for the messages gents, much appreciated.

Am gutted, our black lab Maggie (she was 15) was put to sleep yesterday