adios 717 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renton said: More direct but less poetic imo. Anything else (like responding to it) is overthinking. There's no satisfaction at the end of this rainbow. He's never admitting what's obvious to everyone else. Still, I occasionally get to say "cunt" so carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Nothing has changed, NOTHING HAS CHANGED Honestly, I’m not sure if some of you are on your rag today? This from a few days after the vote has been my position. I’m struggling where you think I’ve particularly changed over 2 years. Okay, let's do this again. Access to single market for trade and services - Under Theresa May's plan we will have no free access to the SM for services (80% of our economy) Control over immigration / borders - Under the white paper we will likely have similar levels of migration to what we have now Free trade deals with rest of world - The white paper means that many FTAs are now off the table as Trump said yesterday Sovereignty over our own laws / policies (eg Democratic accountability / vat on fuel) - We will mirror EU laws on goods and in other required areas Separation from an union that wants to expand further geographically and politically. - Cameron got us that Separation from the unstable Eurozone and the problems we could get dragged into financially and due to free movement. - We aren't in the Eurozone UK decision on TTIP - TTIP is dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38804 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 39 minutes ago, Renton said: They said cake and the fat cunt believed them. CT in 9 words. Can anyone better this? 32 minutes ago, adios said: Cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 The thing with this bollocks from Trump on trade - he's complaining the US gets a bad deal from the EU. Which means by extension the EU must get a 'good' deal on trade. So we're swapping trading relationship which favours us, for one that won't, as far as the US is concerned. It's fucking ludicrous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Trump says May found his advice on how to negotiate Brexit with the EU to be 'too brutal'. All out nuclear war, presumably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 57 minutes ago, Rayvin said: The thing with this bollocks from Trump on trade - he's complaining the US gets a bad deal from the EU. Which means by extension the EU must get a 'good' deal on trade. So we're swapping trading relationship which favours us, for one that won't, as far as the US is concerned. It's fucking ludicrous. Exactly what I was thinking when I heard it. By definition any deal we get has to be worse than what we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34599 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 THE BRITISH PEOPLE WANT A WORSE DEAL WHY CAN'T YOU RESPECT THEIR WISHES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14060 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Stop talking down worse deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, ewerk said: Okay, let's do this again. Access to single market for trade and services - Under Theresa May's plan we will have no free access to the SM for services (80% of our economy) Control over immigration / borders - Under the white paper we will likely have similar levels of migration to what we have now Free trade deals with rest of world - The white paper means that many FTAs are now off the table as Trump said yesterday Sovereignty over our own laws / policies (eg Democratic accountability / vat on fuel) - We will mirror EU laws on goods and in other required areas Separation from an union that wants to expand further geographically and politically. - Cameron got us that Separation from the unstable Eurozone and the problems we could get dragged into financially and due to free movement. - We aren't in the Eurozone UK decision on TTIP - TTIP is dead Without getting into your red lines I’m saying my reasons for voting Brexit have not changed over the two years. Edited July 13, 2018 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26935 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Traitors of Will's people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Without getting into your red lines I’m saying my reasons for voting Brexit have not changed over the two years. Two years ago your reasons for voting for Brexit were bullshit. They remain bullshit today as I’ve explained above. How about just admitting that you made a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, ewerk said: How about just admitting that you made a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34599 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: Without getting into your red lines I’m saying my reasons for voting Brexit have not changed over the two years. Agreed, you're still a dipshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 1 hour ago, ewerk said: Two years ago your reasons for voting for Brexit were bullshit. They remain bullshit today as I’ve explained above. How about just admitting that you made a mistake? If May delivers what’s in the chequers plan I’ll be very happy. The only item from my original “wishlist” that is not clear is services. However there is a separate plan for that and if it is agreed that will solve a lot of the potential problems with the EU and lead to much more service growth with the rest of the world. I made it pretty clear two years ago that a disasterous few years, recession, lots of job losses then I would consider my decision a mistake. So far the promised recession never happened and jobs are at record highs. If TM pulls of this deal, investment will flood in and the economy will absolutely soar. And that’s before we get all those lovely trade deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17824 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: If May delivers what’s in the chequers plan I’ll be very happy. The only item from my original “wishlist” that is not clear is services. However there is a separate plan for that and if it is agreed that will solve a lot of the potential problems with the EU and lead to much more service growth with the rest of the world. I made it pretty clear two years ago that a disasterous few years, recession, lots of job losses then I would consider my decision a mistake. So far the promised recession never happened and jobs are at record highs. If TM pulls of this deal, investment will flood in and the economy will absolutely soar. And that’s before we get all those lovely trade deals. So dense I don't know where to start. So I won't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted July 13, 2018 Author Share Posted July 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, Renton said: So dense I don't know where to start. So I won't bother. Good idea. I’ll take no lessons from someone who would have had us in the Euro years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 The deal won’t improve our economy because: a. We won’t have free access to the SM for services which make up 80% of our economy. b. It will preclude any substantial deal with the USA which is the main country we’ll have been aiming to do a deal with. Go on, refute those points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 On 26/03/2018 at 15:42, Christmas Tree said: As for the border, why would a few traffic cameras lead to violence? I honestly don’t appreciate why your peers are going to take up arms because a few customs cameras are there. CT, we’ve just had a week of rioting, shots fired at police, plastic bullets being used in the streets, a bomb thrown at Gerry Adams’ house, 75 petrol bombs thrown in one night and two two IEDs at police and this is just a standard July. Don’t dismiss the threat of violence. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26935 Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, ewerk said: CT, we’ve just had a week of rioting, shots fired at police, plastic bullets being used in the streets, a bomb thrown at Gerry Adams’ house, 75 petrol bombs thrown in one night and two two IEDs at police and this is just a standard July. Don’t dismiss the threat of violence. BAU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44840154 It would be a risk putting no deal on the ballot paper but perhaps the only way of getting rid of the idea altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14060 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 No deal would win. Absolutely nailed on the way things have been going lately and considering May is even less popular than Cameron so can't even rely on a degree of personal trust and credibility. Farage and co would frame any arguments against it as "Project Fear", tell us to believe in Britain, take back control for our great nation, yadda yadda, while enough soft remainers would shift to May's deal because they're sick of the whole Brexit thing and just want it to be over and done with, and no deal would win. Which would at least make for some kind of accountability, you'd like to think. Except it'll somehow still be everyone else's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I'm not so sure it would win. People are stupid but are they that stupid? Maybe I have too much faith in humanity. We wouldn't be talking about fear though, it would be cold hard facts. Millions would be out of a job overnight. It's too stupid a prospect to even put down as an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4226 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, ewerk said: I'm not so sure it would win. People are stupid but are they that stupid? Maybe I have too much faith in humanity. We wouldn't be talking about fear though, it would be cold hard facts. Millions would be out of a job overnight. It's too stupid a prospect to even put down as an option. They are, definitely. If you think those facts, the ones that don't match up to the golden view of post leave britain, won't be written off as project fear then you have very much not been paying attention. Look back through this thread, every time an argument is made that the TT brexit contingent (one person) can't actually argue against its "project fear". It'll be the same again because it worked last time. As for it being too stupid a prospect to be even put down as an option...well, I'd agree with you if we didn't have the likes of Priti Patel in the house whose definition of leadership is "doing whatever you're told regardless of the consequences". It's all quite simple, people are fucking stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 There were some usually sensible albeit misguided leave voters last time though. There's only the Tommy Robinson types left which probably accounts for only a fraction of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26441 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 In the last referendum leavers were told that doing a deal with the EU would be easy. That we'd keep all that trade and then increase our trade all around the world, something CT still believes. But this time they can't point to that. We've seen that the EU won't give us our cake, the trade deals around the world, if the can be done, will take decades to complete. It's such a mind-blowingly stupid idea that anyone with even half a brain should realise it's nonsense. It's a massive risk to test the electorate's stupidity in this way. But I can't really see an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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