Europe --- In or Out

[PaddockLad 14626]

Cracking

 

 

[Alex 30452]

Tbf, when you just type the first thing that comes into your head purely to try and get a reaction it must be difficult to keep track of all times you’ve contradicted yourself 

[Gemmill 34608]

"Cameron should be shot for having no plan".

 

And what about the fuckwits that voted leave with no concept of what it would look like beyond the lies of Johnson and Gove. You don't vote for it and then say "Ok now show us your plan....what do you mean there isn't one?"

 

Cunt.

[Rayvin 4964]

Come on CT, you have to own that one. Confirms everything we already knew as well about the shifting goalpost mentality of Leave voters.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

13 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Come on CT, you have to own that one. Confirms everything we already knew as well about the shifting goalpost mentality of Leave voters.

 

Give him a break, he changed his mind on the single market when it transpired that we can't both stay in it and stop all the pakis coming in from all the eu countries like they do. 

[Dr Gloom 19838]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

 

That's not do much a myth as an outright lie. We voted to leave the EU, nothing else. This is what you do CT. You swallow the lies of the far right and keep repeating them verbatim, no matter how many times you're proven wrong. 

most hard brexiteers were making the case for the norway model, staying in the single market etc ... before the referendum. once we voted leave their greedy piggy eyes lit up and now we apparently have to fuck ourselves in the arse or we're cheating the will of the people 

[adios 717]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Tbf, when you just type the first thing that comes into your head purely to try and get a reaction it must be difficult to keep track of all times you’ve contradicted yourself 

Don't give him that much credit, man.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

3 hours ago, Renton said:

 

That's not do much a myth as an outright lie. We voted to leave the EU, nothing else. This is what you do CT. You swallow the lies of the far right and keep repeating them verbatim, no matter how many times you're proven wrong. 

 

 Cameron said voting leave meant leaving the SM, as did Osbourne as did Boris, Gove and the leaflet sent to peoples homes by the Government and discussed in every TV debate.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

 

Errmmm...

 

 

Access not membership

 

 Actually, the likes you got for that and the follow up comments highlight perfectly that quite a few on here have no clue on the argument.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Christmas Tree

[Ayatollah Hermione 12767]

Aye, they’ll let any old cunt get access if they’re not a member  

[ewerk 26441]

4 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Access not membership

 

 Actually, the likes you got for that and the follow up comments highlight perfectly that quite a few on here have no clue on the argument.

So you thought that we would have entirely unfettered access to the SM after leaving it?

[ewerk 26441]

12 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 Cameron said voting leave meant leaving the SM, as did Osbourne as did Boris, Gove and the leaflet sent to peoples homes by the Government and discussed in every TV debate.

And yet on 22% of leavers thought that we would lose access to the SM. So you didn't understand the implications of your vote.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

And yet on 22% of leavers thought that we would lose access to the SM. So you didn't understand the implications of your vote.

 

I understood my vote perfectly as expressed in here numerous times and “wishlist” of outcomes still stacks up even under Mays deal.

 

Were there some leavers who didn’t understand the details, of course, just as there were many remainers who voted due to a fear of a punishment budget and recession within weeks.

[Renton 17825]

29 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 Cameron said voting leave meant leaving the SM, as did Osbourne as did Boris, Gove and the leaflet sent to peoples homes by the Government and discussed in every TV debate.

 

The leaflet didn't say that, I've got it in front of me. It's actually a remarkably prescient document tbf. It highlights the risks of leaving, and all of it's predictions have come true, bar a rise in unemployment (so far).

 

You know CT, theres few things worse than liars in my book. You have been caught bang to rights as saying you thought we'd have equivalent access to the SM. Not surprising, as this is what all the leavers said at the time, including Farage. And yet still you deny it. I guess compulsive lying is just in Brexiteers blood. What a prick you are. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Renton

[ewerk 26441]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I understood my vote perfectly as expressed in here numerous times and “wishlist” of outcomes still stacks up even under Mays deal.

 

Were there some leavers who didn’t understand the details, of course, just as there were many remainers who voted due to a fear of a punishment budget and recession within weeks.

So you thought we would get full access to the SM despite not being in the single market? And Theresa May's plan excludes free access to the SM for 80% of our economy.

[Renton 17825]

They said cake and the fat cunt believed them. 

 

CT in 9 words. Can anyone better this? 

[adios 717]

Cunt.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

The leaflet didn't say that, I've got it in front of me. It's actually a remarkably prescient document tbf. It highlights the risks of leaving, and all of it's predictions have come true, bar a rise in unemployment (so far).

 

You know CT, theres few things worse than liars in my book. You have been caught bang to rights as saying you thought we'd have equivalent access to the SM. Not surprising, as this is what all the leavers said at the time, including Farage. And yet still you deny it. I guess compulsive lying is just in Brexiteers blood. What a prick you are. 

 

Nicely dodging that all the people listed said it.

 

The leaflet said. 

 

 

[Renton 17825]

Btw, the latter blog by Richard North (an arch Brexiteer who believed we would remain in the EEA) is interesting. This man knows his stuff, which is extensively referenced. He's been right about pretty much everything so far.

 

 He thinks the new white paper is pure cake and will be rejected out of hand.

 

Quote

In short, this White Paper is a litany of delusion – and we haven't even looked at the Irish issue, much less the other matters. We'll attend to this tomorrow, but already we see the porcine aviation out in force. There is not the slightest chance of this being accepted by the EU.

 

http://eureferendum.com/

 

Katya Adler of the BBC seems to agree.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-44816048

 

 

[ewerk 26441]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Nicely dodging that all the people listed said it.

 

The leaflet said. 

 

 

You missed the bit above, 'Remaining inside the EU guarantees our full access to its Single Market. By contrast, leaving creates uncertainty and risk.'

That's not a commitment to leave the SM.

Edited July 13, 2018 by ewerk

[Renton 17825]

6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Nicely dodging that all the people listed said it.

 

The leaflet said. 

 

 

Yes, it did. It was presented as a risk, which has come true. It's a good leaflet, read the whole thing tubs. 

 

You've dodged eveything the leavers said. You obviously believed them, not the government or Remain. You believed cake. 

[Renton 17825]

13 minutes ago, adios said:

Cunt.

 

More direct but less poetic imo. 

[ewerk 26441]

7 minutes ago, Renton said:

Btw, the latter blog by Richard North (an arch Brexiteer who believed we would remain in the EEA) is interesting. This man knows his stuff, which is extensively referenced. He's been right about pretty much everything so far.

 

 He thinks the new white paper is pure cake and will be rejected out of hand.

 

 

http://eureferendum.com/

 

Katya Adler of the BBC seems to agree.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-44816048

 

 

It won't be accepted in its current form but it won't be rejected out of hand imo.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

On 29/06/2016 at 22:26, Christmas Tree said:

Part of the problem is you are asking me to give you the answers to a very complex organisational and negotiating plan that the best brains in the land are only beginning to grapple with.

 

Obviously I can't do that and I have no idea what basis of a plan Gove or Boris have rattling around in their heads. (None you cry).

 

As I said on Brexit day 1, what European leaders say in the first couple of months while feelings are raw, might well be different when tempers cool and their own economical and political realities kick in.

 

I can only give you my wish list / thoughts rattling in my head that made me come to my decision.

 

Would like (In no order)

 

Access to single market for trade and services

Control over immigration / borders

Free trade deals with rest of world

Sovereignty over our own laws / policies (eg Democratic accountability / vat on fuel)

Separation from an union that wants to expand further geographically and politically.

Separation from the unstable Eurozone and the problems we could get dragged into financially and due to free movement.

UK decision on TTIP

 

It's late, I may have missed some off.

 

Now you will tell me I can't have all them based on current relationships and what is currently being said by the EU. But that's for the negotiations to sort out.

 

Even if we had to have free movement of people, the other stuff would be worth it, however imo they will have to deliver something on immigration otherwise a certain section of the 52% will be unhappy.

 

The only big problem for me is the level of pain we have to endure to get there. If it's "choppy waters" that can be controlled then my vision of the end game will be worth it. If it's a disaster ours few years, then that's a heavy price to pay that wouldn't sit well with me.

 

I appreciate that if you don't think the majority of that list is a good place to be, then no choppy waters to get there would be acceptable.

 

I also bare in mind this is a left leaning board and there have been lots of comments about Tories pinching holiday time off etc. Naturally I don't see any of that happening, particularly given the bloody nose the political class have just been given.

 

Anyway, an honest view. Right or wrong, time will tell.

 

Nothing has changed, NOTHING HAS CHANGED

 

Honestly, I’m not sure if some of you are on your rag today? This from a few days after the vote has been my position. I’m struggling where you think I’ve particularly changed over 2 years.

[Renton 17825]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

It won't be accepted in its current form but it won't be rejected out of hand imo.

 

It won't be publically rejected out of hand. There is a school of thought now the EU will string negotiations along enough for them to make proper no deal preparations. "Planning". Meanwhile we have requisitioned a warehouse with 17 million pounds worth of processed food should we crash out. I make that a pot noodle each?