Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4003]

5 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Always someone else's fault. 

 

Show me where that report has been "widely ridiculed"?  

 

 

 

 well for a starter we didn’t have a recession or add a million to unemployment. 

 

You show me an upto date study study that suggests any household will lose 6k a year.

[Renton 18049]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

It wasn’t just on food

 

* notes insults have started as you move to Defcon 3

 

Go on then, I can't find this report. Give me a link so I can appraise it. Seems highly unlikely to me the differences between the status quo and WTO would be so marginal. 

 

Edit. Guess you're referring to the resolution foundation report. That was limited solely to cost of living, primarily food. Why would you trust that report over the much wider encompassing one published by the treasury? And, even if you take that report at face value, how is that good news? Is all the chaos of Brexit worth it just to make us poorer? 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Renton

[Renton 18049]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 well for a starter we didn’t have a recession or add a million to unemployment. 

 

You show me an upto date study study that suggests any household will lose 6k a year.

 

Eh? The reports I cited were what would happen to the economy under new trading arrangements. Post Brexit. This has happened yet.

 

Can't see the relevance that the reports are out of date either since they are future projections reported in current Stirling values. Not sure how a more current report would be different given the same assumptions?

 

Of course the government has embargoed literally dozens of more detailed and current impact reports which you are quite happy with. I've told you I'm not. 

[Christmas Tree 4003]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Eh? The reports I cited were what would happen to the economy under new trading arrangements. Post Brexit. This has happened yet.

 

Can't see the relevance that the reports are out of date either since they are future projections reported in current Stirling values. Not sure how a more current report would be different given the same assumptions?

 

Of course the government has embargoed literally dozens of more detailed and current impact reports which you are quite happy with. I've told you I'm not. 

 

Your quoting the Osborne project fear reports that were so most pessimistic projections ran through poor models based on shit assumptions

 

The national Audit office reported on these in the summer and stopped short of calling them lies. They said in future independent experts should be brought in to guard against errors

 

[Renton 18049]

47 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Your quoting the Osborne project fear reports that were so most pessimistic projections ran through poor models based on shit assumptions

 

The national Audit office reported on these in the summer and stopped short of calling them lies. They said in future independent experts should be brought in to guard against errors

 

 

 

It was an official government report about what will happen post Brexit. Are you seriously suggesting the authors were got to by Osbourne? Wow, conspiracy nut. How can you say it's even incorrect when it's a predictive model of what's going to happen post Brexit? What assumptions in the model do you think are wrong out of interest? How was the model poor? What about the other models by numerous academic groups that corroborate it? Do you have any links to any positive reports or models that have undergone peer review and scrutiny? 

 

Also give me a specific link to this NAO critique please because I'd like to see it. I can't even see how this is in their remit.

 

 

 

[Renton 18049]

While we're at it CT, if you value the NHS, how can you justify Brexit? I guess the experts from this little  known medical journal called the Lancet don't know what they're talking about either?

 

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)31926-8/fulltext

 

 

[Meenzer 14136]

 

[Alex 30779]

Just another neagative story from the left-wing remoaning press

[Gemmill 35515]

Which border?  Where are we expecting the varmints to come from? 

[Park Life 71]

Build a wall get Mechicans to pay for it.

[Dr Gloom 20150]

A no deal Brexit will be cracking for lorry drivers. 

 

“If you add an average of two minutes to customs processing, you get a 17-mile queue [from Dover] almost back to Ashford,” says Mr Hookham. “Another four minutes takes the queue back to Maidstone, six minutes back to the M25, eight minutes and you are up to the Dartford crossing and Essex.”  

 

Why Dover is braced for customs gridlock after Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/7ff7c97c-b33c-11e7-a398-73d59db9e399

[Park Life 71]

5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

A no deal Brexit will be cracking for lorry drivers. 

 

“If you add an average of two minutes to customs processing, you get a 17-mile queue [from Dover] almost back to Ashford,” says Mr Hookham. “Another four minutes takes the queue back to Maidstone, six minutes back to the M25, eight minutes and you are up to the Dartford crossing and Essex.”  

 

Why Dover is braced for customs gridlock after Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/7ff7c97c-b33c-11e7-a398-73d59db9e399

On the upside it will slow the illegals down.

[Renton 18049]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

A no deal Brexit will be cracking for lorry drivers. 

 

“If you add an average of two minutes to customs processing, you get a 17-mile queue [from Dover] almost back to Ashford,” says Mr Hookham. “Another four minutes takes the queue back to Maidstone, six minutes back to the M25, eight minutes and you are up to the Dartford crossing and Essex.”  

 

Why Dover is braced for customs gridlock after Brexit

https://www.ft.com/content/7ff7c97c-b33c-11e7-a398-73d59db9e399

 

Non-tariff barriers were always going to be the main issue. These have been completely ignored by the swivelled eyed loony right brigade that CT believes in. Without a deal, the UK will enter a state of emergency, simple as that. 

 

Edit. I might add, this is just the English side of the channel. Are the French going to put up with and pay for the vast amounts of infrastructure and human capital needed for this? Non. They will look for trade elsewhere.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Renton

[Howmanheyman 27558]

Can we add 'si or no?' to the thread title, godfather style? 

 

[Meenzer 14136]

It'll take ages for the queue to reach the Boldons. No problem.

[Park Life 71]

2 hours ago, Meenzer said:

It'll take ages for the queue to reach the Boldons. No problem.

He beat Uber down tbf.

[Christmas Tree 4003]

The obvious solution is to agree to carry on with a frictionless customers arrangement. Failing that we move onto a system like the frictionless one at Southampton that handles the majority of non EU imports and exports.

 

This is why it’s important that the we take a view soon whether the EU is going to come to it’s senses or not.

 

(which it seems they are starting to do given yesterday’s leak from the foreign ministry).

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/868025/Brexit-news-leaked-paper-Germany-preparing-EU-trade-deal-Britain/amp

 

Hopefully the waving of Willy’s is waning.

 

[Renton 18049]

30 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

The obvious solution is to agree to carry on with a frictionless customers arrangement. Failing that we move onto a system like the frictionless one at Southampton that handles the majority of non EU imports and exports.

 

This is why it’s important that the we take a view soon whether the EU is going to come to it’s senses or not.

 

(which it seems they are starting to do given yesterday’s leak from the foreign ministry).

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/868025/Brexit-news-leaked-paper-Germany-preparing-EU-trade-deal-Britain/amp

 

Hopefully the waving of Willy’s is waning.

 

 

Southampton is a container port handling trans-Atlantic goods. It's not handling massively time sensitive cargo like Dover and other eastern ports which are being conveyed on the other side by wagons. 16000 trucks a day pass through Dover alone man, much of them carrying fresh produce or components subject to time sensitive supply chains.

 

Oh aye, and there's still northern Ireland.

 

You just think this is am obvious solution because you believe what the swivel eyed Tory loons have told you. This trumps all other information, even what the port authorities are saying.

 

Also you talk as if there is some easy IT fix. I worked on the NHS IT project on electronic prescriptions. After millions spent and about 8 years it got nowhere and was scrapped. Now you reckon it's no problem to introduce a vastly more complicated project from a standing start in just over a year, at a time we are strapped for cash. Like you're Tory chums, you are delusional. This is not going to end well. 

 

And am I fuck clicking on an Express link. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 4003]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Southampton is a container port handling trans-Atlantic goods. It's not handling massively time sensitive cargo like Dover and other eastern ports which are being conveyed on the other side by wagons. 16000 trucks a day pass through Dover alone man, much of them carrying fresh produce or components subject to time sensitive supply chains.

 

Oh aye, and there's still northern Ireland.

 

You just think this is am obvious solution because you believe what the swivel eyed Tory loons have told you. This trumps all other information, even what the port authorities are saying.

 

Also you talk as if there is some easy IT fix. I worked on the NHS IT project on electronic prescriptions. After millions spent and about 8 years it got nowhere and was scrapped. Now you reckon it's no problem to introduce a vastly more complicated project from a standing start in just over a year, at a time we are strapped for cash. Like you're Tory chums, you are delusional. This is not going to end well. 

 

And am I fuck clicking on an Express link. 

 

Google the Bloomberg version as they broke the story.

 

As for the IT side, the guy who runs Southampton reckons it could be rolled out for eu trade.

 

As for Dover, it’s 8,000 trucks a day not 16,000 (not like you to exaggerate   ).

 

 

[Renton 18049]

8 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Google the Bloomberg version as they broke the story.

 

As for the IT side, the guy who runs Southampton reckons it could be rolled out for eu trade.

 

As for Dover, it’s 8,000 trucks a day not 16,000 (not like you to exaggerate   ).

 

 

I haven't heard what the "guy" at Southampton said, but I'd prefer to listen to Dover port authority and use common sense. They're clearly different types of port. The figure I saw was 16,000 but whatever. It should be obvious that this is a huge amount of traffic and it'll take many years and billions of pounds to come up with a solution.

 

Brexiters never come up with any solutions, they just blame everyone else. In all honesty, do you think even at this stage the disruption will be worth it. What are the positives of Brexit for you again? 

[Alex 30779]

When was a large public sector IT system ever rolled out on time? Let alone to budget. It's rare for them to even fulfil their intended purpose.

[Christmas Tree 4003]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

I haven't heard what the "guy" at Southampton said, but I'd prefer to listen to Dover port authority and use common sense. They're clearly different types of port. The figure I saw was 16,000 but whatever. It should be obvious that this is a huge amount of traffic and it'll take many years and billions of pounds to come up with a solution.

 

Brexiters never come up with any solutions, they just blame everyone else. In all honesty, do you think even at this stage the disruption will be worth it. What are the positives of Brexit for you again? 

 

 Whatever

 

I gave you two solutions.

 

Having a similar free trade agreement with the EU whilst also being able to have FTA’s with the faster growing markets around the world. No VAT on tampons.

[Renton 18049]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 Whatever

 

I gave you two solutions.

 

Having a similar free trade agreement with the EU whilst also being able to have FTA’s with the faster growing markets around the world. No VAT on tampons.

Whatever. Here's a link to the 16000 wagons a day fact if you're going to be that pedantic.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/20/post-brexit-customs-gridlock-could-choke-uk-trade-experts-warn

 

I've pointed out why your Southampton idea is bollocks, probably even if they get Ant on the case.

 

As for your other "solution". When are you ever going to get that we're not going to get our cake and eat it? Is it not obvious that this is even dawning on Davis?

 

Tbh you're not even trying to debate here. You're just regurgitating garbage from the far right of your party without bothering to fact check anything. What's depressing is suburbs of Sunderland and similar are full of people like you. Which, combined with the best PM of your lifetime, is why we are in this mess. 

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4003]

23 minutes ago, Renton said:

Whatever. Here's a link to the 16000 wagons a day fact if you're going to be that pedantic.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/20/post-brexit-customs-gridlock-could-choke-uk-trade-experts-warn

 

I've pointed out why your Southampton idea is bollocks, probably even if they get Ant on the case.

 

As for your other "solution". When are you ever going to get that we're not going to get our cake and eat it? Is it not obvious that this is even dawning on Davis?

 

Tbh you're not even trying to debate here. You're just regurgitating garbage from the far right of your party without bothering to fact check anything. What's depressing is suburbs of Sunderland and similar are full of people like you. Which, combined with the best PM of your lifetime, is why we are in this mess. 

 

 

 

 

My Dover facts are from their website.

 

My Southampton facts are from Newsnight interview with them (The U.K.’s biggest port operator), last week.

 

Neither source can be described as far right. 

 

You seemed to have moved onto Defcon 4 with your petty insults so maybe time to step away from the keyboard.

 

 

[Renton 18049]

17 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 

My Dover facts are from their website.

 

My Southampton facts are from Newsnight interview with them (The U.K.’s biggest port operator), last week.

 

Neither source can be described as far right. 

 

You seemed to have moved onto Defcon 4 with your petty insults so maybe time to step away from the keyboard.

 

 

 

17 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 

My Dover facts are from their website.

 

My Southampton facts are from Newsnight interview with them (The U.K.’s biggest port operator), last week.

 

Neither source can be described as far right. 

 

You seemed to have moved onto Defcon 4 with your petty insults so maybe time to step away from the keyboard.

 

 

 

I'm being more civil than you deserve, that's for sure.

 

The 8000 figure is an average figure. The 16000 figure is a peak figure. It's fairly obvious that systems have to be able to operate to the maximum throughput, not the average. Can you grasp this?

 

Regardless, either figure is mind boggling huge. I can't imagine what 10,000 wagons look like. So, a simple question for you. In the event that custom checks had to be introduced in March 2019, do you honestly believe Dover could function? Yes, or no?