Christmas Tree 4669 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Their message is not the attacks, it's the complex propaganda and some efforts could be made to stop that. Warnings of attacks are not the message either. You might be right but to me, the propaganda / cause is already out of the bag. These low life criminals that seem to carry out a lot of this are not relying on complex messages. And * just going on information I've heard on the news * France and Belguim seem to have problems with "Muslim" areas that are no go areas for police. Apparently such areas in Nice as well. So a lot of this hatred will be festering / discussed regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 You might be right but to me, the propaganda / cause is already out of the bag. These low life criminals that seem to carry out a lot of this are not relying on complex messages. And * just going on information I've heard on the news * France and Belguim seem to have problems with "Muslim" areas that are no go areas for police. Apparently such areas in Nice as well. So a lot of this hatred will be festering / discussed regularly. Donald Trump has said the same about London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21032 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Donald Trump has said the same about London. Which is false but does not mean this is. Honestly, I don't want to see any disturbing images of this yet even on the BBC I've just seen the covered body of a young girl next to a toy doll. It's Fucking with my head this, don't understand why it's on the site without a warning. I fear that sooner or later there will be a massive backlash against Muslim communities in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5150 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) I fear that sooner or later there will be a massive backlash against Muslim communities in France. I'm actually a bit surprised we're not there yet already... It actually speaks very well of Western civilisation that there isn't. Edited July 15, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I'd be interested to read creditable sources that report on these no go zones. If you genuinely fear a backlash on Muslim communities though, then to me it seems dangerous to disseminate myths that mass murders are shared values among wider Muslim groups rather than only among dangerous individuals finding each other online and radicalising one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21032 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I'd be interested to read creditable sources that report on these no go zones. If you genuinely fear a backlash on Muslim communities though, then to me it seems dangerous to disseminate myths that mass murders are shared values among wider Muslim groups rather than only among dangerous individuals finding each other online and radicalising one another. Is this in some way aimed at me? I'm not advocating nor do I want a back lash, and as far as i am aware I'm not disseminating any myths. Regardless, I fear it will happen and I understand why. I honestly fear the indiscriminate slaughter of children may tip the balance thus time. Hope I'm wrong, but we can't exist in this state forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4669 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I'd be interested to read creditable sources that report on these no go zones. If you genuinely fear a backlash on Muslim communities though, then to me it seems dangerous to disseminate myths that mass murders are shared values among wider Muslim groups rather than only among dangerous individuals finding each other online and radicalising one another. I'm only going off what I've heard on normal news so happy to be wrong, but I think after the Paris attacks the Belguim PM said they had lost control of Molonbeek? Dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5150 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html Molonbeek doesn't sound like a police no go zone from this report (given that it mentions that Police patrol it), but that said, seems to be the source of Belgium's Islamist problems. I honestly think the existence of these little communities and the failure to create true integration is a significant problem. Edited July 15, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21032 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-terror-attacks-visiting-molenbeek-the-police-no-go-zone-that-was-home-to-two-of-the-gunmen-a6735551.html Molonbeek doesn't sound like a police no go zone from this report (given that it mentions that Police patrol it), but that said, seems to be the source of Belgium's Islamist problems. I honestly think the existence of these little communities and the failure to create true integration is a significant problem. It's a huge problem. In the UK as well. Ghettoisation and failure of integration is the most significant problem imo. I know HF disagrees and I'm not up for debating it today. Fortunately I'm off to the lake district next week and will be largely out of internet connection so will avoid retreading the same old ground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7066 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Is this in some way aimed at me? I'm not advocating nor do I want a back lash, and as far as i am aware I'm not disseminating any myths. Regardless, I fear it will happen and I understand why. I honestly fear the indiscriminate slaughter of children may tip the balance thus time. Hope I'm wrong, but we can't exist in this state forever. No it was aimed at CT. You only defended his right to make claims he himself said were not well researched. The claim that "a lot of this hatred will be festering / discussed regularly" in regards to an entire town that has allegedly been subsumed by extremism is dangerous. Blokes like the idiot that did this arent popular and well regarded members of a wide community with similar evil intent. They're very secretive about the extent of their hatred and their inclination to act on it. They would rarely voice any inclination to do so outside of anonymous interaction on extremist websites. The general population of any majority Muslim towns would have no more time for such a heinous attack as we would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 My partner in crime at work has just found out one of his neighbours was killed last night, she was on holiday with her family. RIP.Sadly I can't see an end to this in France and mainland Europe, hatred is endemic and the freedom of movement allows an easier passage to martyrdom. What also should be said is how incompetent foreign intelligence units seem to be, every attack in recent years has been carried out by known extremists who are "On their radar", yet they allow it to happen time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Was this not a French geezer with no link to terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30159 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Aye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4669 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Was this not a French geezer with no link to terrorism? I don't think they know yet. Probably have to go through his online activity first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I read this morning he was known to police, then just reading an updated article now they are saying he has was known but no links to terrorism. It seems very odd to massacre so many people with a vehicle because your wife left you? There must be more to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6961 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Hollande's response? We will intensify our attacks in Syria I appreciate he has to say something but how is that going to stop an African born French national? It's just a vicious circle. Bomb us? We will bomb you back twice as hard. All it achieves is dead civilians and more radicals. There must be something else we can look at because this plan clearly isn't working g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4669 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Only watched about 12 mins in but pretty depressing stuff the people on the march having those attitudes. I know we have the EDL and their "view" scales down the further you go into society. I wonder if it's similar on the Muslim side. I'm not a racist but...... Not sure how I feel living among people who think we are the scum of the earth and destined to burn in hell. Not sure what you do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 41886 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 A hive of radical Muslims, is it then, Boldon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4669 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 A hive of radical Muslims, is it then, Boldon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32595 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 A hive of radical Muslims, is it then, Boldon? CT's standard interaction with Muslims: "Loaf of bread and a pint of milk, please, Chief." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4669 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 True Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 41886 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 CT's standard interaction with Muslims: "3 large donners, chips, and a duck pizza, please, Chief." 'd your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I don't think they know yet. Probably have to go through his online activity first. If they do make a link retrospectively, he still won't have been known to have links to terrorists ahead of the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5150 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Only watched about 12 mins in but pretty depressing stuff the people on the march having those attitudes. I know we have the EDL and their "view" scales down the further you go into society. I wonder if it's similar on the Muslim side. I'm not a racist but...... Not sure how I feel living among people who think we are the scum of the earth and destined to burn in hell. Not sure what you do about it. I've watched the whole thing (was genuinely curious and I'm grateful that you posted it) and it does have a series of much more open and approachable Muslims, prepared to talk about their beliefs, prepared to condemn those that carry out these attacks, and also prepared to accept and respect the laws of the land they live in. One of the Muslim women mentions that 'if you kill another, you kill all of humanity' and states that she doesn't understand where the extremists get their ideas from. In fairness, from what I gather, the extremists get their ideas from the Qu'ran - but even so. It's not all bad is what I'm saying, and they make mention of the fact that those at that march represent only 100ish out of 30,000 Muslims in Luton. Looking at the different viewpoints, I did actually feel that it was harsh to expect moderate Muslims, who sound a lot like typical Christians, to somehow police the extremists. They looked uncomfortable discussing them, and some of the moderates even looked scared to do so. While I still think better integration would be an good idea generally, I'm not sure it would combat extremism after all. Anyway, that was interesting so thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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