NJS 3992 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 It's usually the case that when terrorists are involved in brokering peace and becoming part of it, people either cling on to one view of then or the other (Mandela, Dyan). I just think ex-murderer who changed over time and made a huge difference in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Stop being such a big baby. I'll set my daughter on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 It's usually the case that when terrorists are involved in brokering peace and becoming part of it, people either cling on to one view of then or the other (Mandela, Dyan). I just think ex-murderer who changed over time and made a huge difference in the end. It is the privilege of imperialists to see things in black and white. But I know you hate everyone equally, so no bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30753 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I thought that documentary that was shown maybe 5 years ago about him and Paisley and their trips to the USA etc. was fascinating. Those two being able to let bygones be bygones did give me some hope the world isn't totally fucked just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14862 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 What's that? Sympathising with terrorists? So that's ewerk and the queen then He'll always be a hugely divisive figure. As ferociously, murderously pitiless as he was hugely intelligent and visionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26768 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 It is the privilege of imperialists to see things in black and white. But I know you hate everyone equally, so no bother. I have no doubt that if NJS was born in the Bogside in the 50's he would have been in the IRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3992 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I have no doubt that if NJS was born in the Bogside in the 50's he would have been in the IRA.I've always been able to understand why oppressed people get angry enough to fight - it's just the killing civilians that's unpalatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I have no doubt that if NJS was born in the Bogside in the 50's he would have been in the IRA. I get the same impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I've always been able to understand why oppressed people get angry enough to fight - it's just the killing civilians that's unpalatable. That's my problem with the IRA too. Was never that bothered about military targets for whatever reason. I just mean that to brand him simply a murderer is to say the same thing about basically every leader in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26768 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I've always been able to understand why oppressed people get angry enough to fight - it's just the killing civilians that's unpalatable. Absolutely. But if the IRA campaign was to have taken place today I think you'd see a lot more care taken to avoid civilian deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3992 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 That's my problem with the IRA too. Was never that bothered about military targets for whatever reason. I just mean that to brand him simply a murderer is to say the same thing about basically every leader in history. I used the term murderer deliberately - I think the difference between him and Adams was that the latter always leaned towards the political solution and wasn't involved in the nitty gritty though no doubt aware. McGuinness on the the hand I believe would have personally ordered killings - including internal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26768 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I think you're giving Adams too much credit. He was almost certainly on the IRA army council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26768 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Armbands maybe but they wouldn't dare try a minutes silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9432 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Absolutely. But if the IRA campaign was to have taken place today I think you'd see a lot more care taken to avoid civilian deaths. Not sure the basis for that assumption. Surely the point of terrorism is to terrorise, and if there is no risk to civilians, where is the terror? Otherwise, what is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26768 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 You can terrorise without killing civilians. Targeting the military, disruption and damage to property can be enough. Murdering civilians wasn't the IRA's aim, it was largely collateral damage. The goalposts have moved so much since the times of the troubles and the Republicans know that any campaign is also about PR and dead civilians is not good PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30753 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I see Ronnie Moran has died. The last of the original Boot Room. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 You can terrorise without killing civilians. Targeting the military, disruption and damage to property can be enough. Murdering civilians wasn't the IRA's aim, it was largely collateral damage. The goalposts have moved so much since the times of the troubles and the Republicans know that any campaign is also about PR and dead civilians is not good PR. Google defines it as 'the use of violence or intimidation, especially against civilians'. I guess that could fit what you're talking about, it doesn't have to be about killing - Killing certainly seems to be the way to get attention though. I don't think it involves attacking the military though, surely that would be armed resistance or guerrilla warfare or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26768 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) The IRA is a paramilitary organisation. Edit: was Edited March 22, 2017 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3992 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 Google defines it as 'the use of violence or intimidation, especially against civilians'. I guess that could fit what you're talking about, it doesn't have to be about killing - Killing certainly seems to be the way to get attention though. I don't think it involves attacking the military though, surely that would be armed resistance or guerrilla warfare or something? ETA were for the main part "ethical" terrorists who only targetted non-civilians. I think they slipped latterly though. I always thought the IRA were a bit Schizo - some bombs like the one in Wigan were completely cuntish but other times fully warned ones like the ones in the city could be said to be "better". This doesn't excuse their criminal gangster side killings of people in their homes which was particularly shitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 27461 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I see Ronnie Moran has died. The last of the original Boot Room. RIPAye, just noticed that. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26768 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 This doesn't excuse their criminal gangster side killings of people in their homes which was particularly shitty. I don't recall that being a particularly prominent tactic by the IRA. Certainly less so than the loyalist/British army side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 27461 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 There were murdering bastards on all sides. Let's just be grateful most of this is in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 There were murdering bastards on all sides. Let's just be grateful most of this is in the past. As are the American Government, the English Government, the French, the Germans, and so on ad nauseum. I'm not excusing them, just being fair about what a gang of cunts most people in power are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 I used the term murderer deliberately - I think the difference between him and Adams was that the latter always leaned towards the political solution and wasn't involved in the nitty gritty though no doubt aware. McGuinness on the the hand I believe would have personally ordered killings - including internal ones. As @@ewerk said, it's generally assumed Adams and McGuinness are on par. I don't really buy that there's any difference between Obama's drone strikes and the tactics of the IRA (for the most part). A murderer is still a murderer even if they only work weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 27461 Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 As are the American Government, the English Government, the French, the Germans, and so on ad nauseum. I'm not excusing them, just being fair about what a gang of cunts most people in power are. Sorry, that's what I meant by 'all sides'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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