Middle East Crisis

[Dr Gloom 20081]

I fully support anyone on the march today who want to show solidarity with the poor people in Gaza.

 

Some of the stuff however....

 

"From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free", chanted feely. We all know what that means. 

 

Placards of support for Palestinian resistance against the "zionist entity". 

 

Reports of people in balaclavas, holding Hamas and other Islamist flags. 

 

Corbyn, naturally, there to call out Israeli war crimes. 

 

No one was there to call out the atrocities committed by Hamas in Israel just one week ago. 

 

https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/pro-palestine-protesters-cheer-as-corbyn-accuses-israel-of-war-crimes/

[ohhh_yeah 2795]

 

Amir Abdollahian had a meeting with Haniyeh in Qatar.

 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

This is a very powerful and moving interview. Please do watch it.

 

If only more of us had this gentleman’s humanity…

 

 

[Alex 30734]

56 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

This is a very powerful and moving interview. Please do watch it.

 

If only more of us had this gentleman’s humanity…

 

 

Wonderfully articulate and utterly heartbreaking 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

 

 

[Holden McGroin 5032]

13 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Not now, Iran

Oh dear. If they do get involved then this could be pivotal. 

 

[Kid Dynamite 6068]

You could see this coming a mile off. A bunch of heed the ball terrorists kill some Israeli civilians, so the Israelis commit genocide against an entire nation and the rest of the West is too soft to call them out on it 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

18 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

You could see this coming a mile off. A bunch of heed the ball terrorists kill some Israeli civilians, so the Israelis commit genocide against an entire nation and the rest of the West is too soft to call them out on it 

 

Israel declared war on hamas after the deadliest attack on jewish people since the holocaust. It is not at war with the Palestinian people 

 

This is unfolding exactly as Hamas wanted it to. Hamas does not give a shit about Palestinian or Israeli civilians. 

 

Hamas could end this now by releasing the hostages, which it won't. 

[Kid Dynamite 6068]

It's not at war with the Palestinian people but 1 million of them better get the fuck out of their houses in the next 3 hours because we're invading?

[Dr Gloom 20081]

9 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

It's not at war with the Palestinian people but 1 million of them better get the fuck out of their houses in the next 3 hours because we're invading?

yes, they’re removing Hamas from power. Do you expect any other reaction to the atrocities Hamas committed on Israeli soil last Saturday?

 

Put yourself in the shoes of Israelis for a moment. Containment is no longer an option. There will never be peace as long as terrorist group committed to wiping Israel off the map governs Gaza. 
 

How do you think Israel should fight Hamas? Is it wrong to retaliate?

 

Hamas created this conflict. It has to be removed. When the war is done, I hope the Israeli people quickly remove Bibi and elect a government that will reignite the peace process. And that the Palestinian people are given the opportunity to elect new leadership in Gaza. 
 

I fear the opposite will be true: the invasion of Gaza and all the civilian casualties there will  radicalise more more angry young men on one hand, and the terrorist attacks in Israel will garner more support for the nationalist far right. I hope I’m wrong, I really do.  

[Isegrim 8927]

There is no question that there is the right as well as the need for Israel to take action against Hamas. But there is the question what means are justified but especially how to stop the breading of new terrorists. As long as the conflict is going on there will be new terrorists and groups evolving.

[ewerk 26750]

There definitely has to be a way to target Hamas officials rather than carpet bombing half the region.

[aimaad22 3569]

2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

It is not at war with the Palestinian people

 

What would you call what they've been subjected to over the last many decades? 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

26 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

 

What would you call what they've been subjected to over the last many decades? 

 

a conflict, certainly. there have been periods of war, periods of relative stability. 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

Hamas could spare thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians today by releasing the hostages. It took the hostages precisely because it wants Israel to invade. It's all going to plan 

[aimaad22 3569]

14 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Hamas could spare thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians today by releasing the hostages. It took the hostages precisely because it wants Israel to invade. It's all going to plan 

 

If that is the logic, Hamas can say Israel could have saved hundreds of its own citizens by ending the brutal and illegal occupation? 

 

Do you begin to see the problem with this line of reasoning? 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

2 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

 

If that is the logic, Hamas can say Israel could have saved hundreds of its own citizens by ending the brutal and illegal occupation? 

 

Do you begin to see the problem with this line of reasoning? 

 

no, i don't. please don't try to justify what hamas did. 

 

i don't support the occupation, i've been clear on that. but what hamas did was a declaration of war.

 

they did it precisely because they want an escalation. they killed babies, beheaded people and took infant and elderly hostages deliberately and publicly in a way that israel and the world could not ignore. they wanted and expected this retaliation. 

 

do you disagree? 

[NJS 3992]

I can't help comparing Braverman and the tories stance on the boats to Netanyahu and the right wing Israel's (and for that matter Hamas"s as well)  attitude to the conflict. 

 

If any of them could snap their fingers and solve the issues in an instant none of them would do it as their reason for being and route to power would not exist. 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

Just now, NJS said:

I can't help comparing Braverman and the tories stance on the boats to Netanyahu and the right wing Israel's (and for that matter Hamas"s as well)  attitude to the conflict. 

 

If any of them could snap their fingers and solve the issues in an instant none of them would do it as their reason for being and route to power would not exist. 

 

i wholeheartedly agree. this war is exactly what hamas and bibi wanted - and needed - to cling to power. cunts leading both sides with blood on their hands

[Kid Dynamite 6068]

3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Hamas could spare thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians today by releasing the hostages. It took the hostages precisely because it wants Israel to invade. It's all going to plan 

How's that the fault of the Palestinian civilians being murdered though? There's wrong on both sides. With millions of innocents stuck in the middles. The Israeli invasion is no more defensible than the Hamas invasion.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Kid Dynamite

[Dr Gloom 20081]

11 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

How's that the fault of the Palestinian civilians being murdered though? It may not be intentional, but you've come across as anti-Palestine since day one of this shit show. There's wrong on both sides. With millions of innocents stuck in the middles. The Israeli invasion is no more defensible than the Hamas invasion.

 

you'll have to explain how i have come across as anti-palestine. 

 

i am pro-israel and pro-palestine - that has been pretty consistent in all of my posts. i think the thing that separates me from the majority of progressives is i am not anti-israel. 

[Dr Gloom 20081]

Unspeakable slaughter, but I’ve seen nobody flying an Israel flag

 

When Russia invaded Ukraine last year, the schools near me put Ukrainian flags in their windows. When George Floyd was killed in Minneapolis two years earlier, Black Lives Matter posters appeared overnight all over my north London neighbourhood. Because that’s the kind of caring, sharing milieu in which I live, full of politically aware good liberals.

 

So do you know how many Israeli flags I’ve seen in the week since Hamas kidnapped, raped and slaughtered over a thousand Jews in Israel, from geriatric Holocaust survivors to tiny babies? That’s right: nada, zip, none.

 

On the contrary, several north London Jewish schools have closed out of concern for the children’s safety. My children’s Hebrew school is, for the moment, still open, but it has been sending regular updates about security measures it is taking — on top of the ones it normally takes. “Well, now we know who would have helped us, and who would have pushed us on to the trains,” a friend texted me.

 

I generally recoil from Second World War comparisons, but I couldn’t deny this one. After all, Hamas’s founding charter calls for a Jewish genocide and accuses Jews of being behind the French Revolution, the freemasons and the UN. It is indistinguishable from Nazi ideology.

 

And when Hamas terrorists committed pogroms last week of the kind we thought died out with our ancestors in eastern Europe a century ago, so many good caring, sharing people decided that the right response was to say Israel had brought this on itself.

 

This is not “Jews don’t count”, to use David Baddiel’s memorable book title. This is flat-out “Jews deserve it”.

 

Read the piece here 

 

It's a devastating intro and reflects my experience here in my liberal corner of South London, where some houses still have Ukraine flags and BLM posters in their windows.

 

It is also mirrored in the huge numbers turning out for the march for Palestine yesterday compared to the much smaller attendance at the vigil for the massacre in Israel last Monday, which was attended almost exclusively by Jewish people.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3243]

16 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Unspeakable slaughter, but I’ve seen nobody flying an Israel flag

 

When Russia invaded Ukraine last year, the schools near me put Ukrainian flags in their windows. When George Floyd was killed in Minneapolis two years earlier, Black Lives Matter posters appeared overnight all over my north London neighbourhood. Because that’s the kind of caring, sharing milieu in which I live, full of politically aware good liberals.

 

So do you know how many Israeli flags I’ve seen in the week since Hamas kidnapped, raped and slaughtered over a thousand Jews in Israel, from geriatric Holocaust survivors to tiny babies? That’s right: nada, zip, none.

 

On the contrary, several north London Jewish schools have closed out of concern for the children’s safety. My children’s Hebrew school is, for the moment, still open, but it has been sending regular updates about security measures it is taking — on top of the ones it normally takes. “Well, now we know who would have helped us, and who would have pushed us on to the trains,” a friend texted me.

 

I generally recoil from Second World War comparisons, but I couldn’t deny this one. After all, Hamas’s founding charter calls for a Jewish genocide and accuses Jews of being behind the French Revolution, the freemasons and the UN. It is indistinguishable from Nazi ideology.

 

And when Hamas terrorists committed pogroms last week of the kind we thought died out with our ancestors in eastern Europe a century ago, so many good caring, sharing people decided that the right response was to say Israel had brought this on itself.

 

This is not “Jews don’t count”, to use David Baddiel’s memorable book title. This is flat-out “Jews deserve it”.

 

Read the piece here 

 

It's a devastating intro and reflects my experience here in my liberal corner of South London, where some houses still have Ukraine flags and BLM posters in their windows.

 

It is also mirrored in the huge numbers turning out for the march for Palestine yesterday compared to the much smaller attendance at the vigil for the massacre in Israel last Monday, which was attended almost exclusively by Jewish people.

But this happened because Israel keeps invading Palestine.

[Dr Gloom 20081]

20 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

But this happened because Israel keeps invading Palestine.

what?

[Kid Dynamite 6068]

47 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Unspeakable slaughter, but I’ve seen nobody flying an Israel flag

 

When Russia invaded Ukraine last year, the schools near me put Ukrainian flags in their windows. When George Floyd was killed in Minneapolis two years earlier, Black Lives Matter posters appeared overnight all over my north London neighbourhood. Because that’s the kind of caring, sharing milieu in which I live, full of politically aware good liberals.

 

So do you know how many Israeli flags I’ve seen in the week since Hamas kidnapped, raped and slaughtered over a thousand Jews in Israel, from geriatric Holocaust survivors to tiny babies? That’s right: nada, zip, none.

 

On the contrary, several north London Jewish schools have closed out of concern for the children’s safety. My children’s Hebrew school is, for the moment, still open, but it has been sending regular updates about security measures it is taking — on top of the ones it normally takes. “Well, now we know who would have helped us, and who would have pushed us on to the trains,” a friend texted me.

 

I generally recoil from Second World War comparisons, but I couldn’t deny this one. After all, Hamas’s founding charter calls for a Jewish genocide and accuses Jews of being behind the French Revolution, the freemasons and the UN. It is indistinguishable from Nazi ideology.

 

And when Hamas terrorists committed pogroms last week of the kind we thought died out with our ancestors in eastern Europe a century ago, so many good caring, sharing people decided that the right response was to say Israel had brought this on itself.

 

This is not “Jews don’t count”, to use David Baddiel’s memorable book title. This is flat-out “Jews deserve it”.

 

Read the piece here 

 

It's a devastating intro and reflects my experience here in my liberal corner of South London, where some houses still have Ukraine flags and BLM posters in their windows.

 

It is also mirrored in the huge numbers turning out for the march for Palestine yesterday compared to the much smaller attendance at the vigil for the massacre in Israel last Monday, which was attended almost exclusively by Jewish people.

Howay man  Do you genuinely believe Israel is the oppressed party (ie Ukraine) in this long saga?