General Random Conversation..

[Howmanheyman 27116]

Quite by accident ended up watching all the broadcast from 1964?of the Cassius Clay v Sonny Liston fight. The fight was introduced by a US commentator ringside and when the actual fight started Harry Carpenter took up the commentary. Was fascinating to watch and not just for the boxing, I knew Liston was the favourite but from the commentary from all involved you could tell just how much of a shock the Clay win was and how they all thought he was just a mouthy 22 year old about to get put in his place. The sheer bedlam after Liston failed to come out after the 6th round was unreal as was the manic behaviour of Clay/Ali accusing Liston's trainers of being dirty by smearing his gloves with something to blind him. Before the game to MC was announcing to the crowd not just the two boxers but famous ex-boxers ringside, the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson, Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis who also was a co-commentator which was almost a who's who of fighters at the time. In the bedlam after the fight the US commentator almost ordered Joe Louis over to Liston's corner and it was clear who was the boss there which bearing in mind the times and attitude to Blacks in America was quite revealing. It was on ESPN Classic and if it's on again, (good chance to be honest), I'd recommend anyone watching it for the history alone even if they're not big boxing fans which I'm not and haven't been for years as the sport seems a shadow of itself.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Having a strange day.

 

Watching episodes of the thick of it when parked up and then listening to real life political podcasts when driving.

 

It's all blurring into one

[wykikitoon 16798]

I think Tooj posted this and cant find it. The pic of a geek with a camera and a caption of "I have a DSLR and I think I am a pro" or soemthing like that.

 

Trying to find it but cant.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

PM/tag the man himself?

[wykikitoon 16798]

Found it.

 

Nothing to see here, carry on.

[PaddockLad 14665]

Frankie Boyle is suing the Daily Mirror for calling him "racist".... isnt that a little bit fuckin sensitive of him of all people?

 

I understand the point he's making, but ffs, after some of the things he says about other people he's not showing an especially thick skin himself here...he doesnt offend me particularly but I dont suppose he'd br hugley surprised if he upsets others with the things he says so he's made his own bed in this one iyam...regardless of what he has or hasnt said

 

http://www.bbc.com/n...t-arts-19950407

Edited October 16, 2012 by PaddockLad

[Gemmill 34862]

I think he's a fucking prick, but he's got every right to sue in this instance. Being branded a racist in the national press if you aren't a racist is a pretty big deal.

[PaddockLad 14665]

I think he's a fucking prick, but he's got every right to sue in this instance. Being branded a racist in the national press if you aren't a racist is a pretty big deal.

 

For your average Joe I'd agree, but if anyone called me a racist I'd laugh in their face. If he of all people couldnt use his quick wit and ready use of sarcasm to make his accusers look fuckin stupid without recourse to the libel laws then its a pretty poor show. This is the man who verbally insults disabled children and their parents and he cant shoot the geniuses at the Daily Mirror sub editor's department down in flames?

[The Fish 9040]

For your average Joe I'd agree, but if anyone called me a racist I'd laugh in their face. If he of all people couldnt use his quick wit and ready use of sarcasm to make his accusers look fuckin stupid without recourse to the libel laws then its a pretty poor show. This is the man who verbally insults disabled children and their parents and he cant shoot the geniuses at the Daily Mirror sub editor's department down in flames?

 

Huge difference imo. Frankie Boyle is a comedian who's paid to tell jokes and his particular brand of comedy is shock, there is simply no time anyone should take anything he says seriously. Much like you wouldn't take Ross Noble's surreal flights of fantasy seriously.

 

The Mirror, as a News outlet, are supposed to report the facts. Calling Frankie Boyle a racist means that for many of their readers, this is fact. If Frankie Boyle was to take the piss, he might get a laugh but a lot of people who read that rag would still think him a racist. However if he breaks from character, forces the Mirror to apologise and retract their claim, he's not a racist and he's made the paper look ridiculous.

 

It'd be like if your boss, in a team meeting said in all seriousness, that you're a racist. Doesn't matter how many quips and one liners you come up with, people at work think you're a racist because the boss said so.

[PaddockLad 14665]

Huge difference imo. Frankie Boyle is a comedian who's paid to tell jokes and his particular brand of comedy is shock, there is simply no time anyone should take anything he says seriously. Much like you wouldn't take Ross Noble's surreal flights of fantasy seriously.

 

The Mirror, as a News outlet, are supposed to report the facts. Calling Frankie Boyle a racist means that for many of their readers, this is fact. If Frankie Boyle was to take the piss, he might get a laugh but a lot of people who read that rag would still think him a racist. However if he breaks from character, forces the Mirror to apologise and retract their claim, he's not a racist and he's made the paper look ridiculous.

 

It'd be like if your boss, in a team meeting said in all seriousness, that you're a racist. Doesn't matter how many quips and one liners you come up with, people at work think you're a racist because the boss said so.

 

Yes, thats true. But I dont spend my life (some would say) childlshly abusing people and as a get out saying "only joking!" People take offence at jokes about disabled kids, theres nothing you or Frankie Boyle being clever and enlightened in the art of comedy can do to change that. In view of that, he's got to accept a bucketload his way, whether its accuarate or not is neither here nor there in the area where he dwells. The other way of looking at it is my boss would be disciplined if he cracked the joke about Jordans son at work, yet Frankie Boyle ends up a millionaire on the back of it. He cant have it both ways, some people are going to try to strike back at him, then he uses the money he's made from his brand of humour to take it to court? honestly, talk about double standards. Both the Mirror and my boss would need a tiny bit of evidence as well to back their claims up, so I presume there is some there somewhere, its not clear how they came up with the headline as far as I can make out. It will come down to a judges opinion in the end, and he's unlikely to be any better informed than you or I.

[The Fish 9040]

Yes, thats true. But I dont spend my life (some would say) childlshly abusing people and as a get out saying "only joking!" People take offence at jokes about disabled kids, theres nothing you or Frankie Boyle being clever and enlightened in the art of comedy can do to change that. In view of that, he's got to accept a bucketload his way, whether its accuarate or not is neither here nor there in the area where he dwells. The other way of looking at it is my boss would be disciplined if he cracked the joke about Jordans son at work, yet Frankie Boyle ends up a millionaire on the back of it. He cant have it both ways, some people are going to try to strike back at him, then he uses the money he's made from his brand of humour to take it to court? honestly, talk about double standards. Both the Mirror and my boss would need a tiny bit of evidence as well to back their claims up, so I presume there is some there somewhere, its not clear how they came up with the headline as far as I can make out. It will come down to a judges opinion in the end, and he's unlikely to be any better informed than you or I.

 

That's the point, there has to be evidence, and if Frankie Boyle feels like he can take it to court and win, I'd wager there isn't.

 

The problem isn't him getting stick, abuse is fine, it's libel that's the problem. You can call his material sick, perverted, offensive, childish, moronic, whatever. You can't say that he's a racist. Especially when the piece in question is him mocking racism by portraying a character who is racist, in a manner as to have the audience laugh at the racism. Otherwise you'd have to level the same accusations at Ed Norton and every other performer that portrayed a racist.

 

Basically the Mirror went for a cheap shot at a controversial man because they thought they'd sell papers and get away with it.

[NJS 3986]

He's admitted being offensive but says being defined as a "racist comedian" was wrong and I'd tend to agree.

 

He's fucked though - its being heard by a jury and the mirror are using clips from his tv show where as we discussed at the time he satarised racism quite well but it was too subtle for morons.

 

If the jury is as thick as the Rednapp one he may as well give up now.

[The Fish 9040]

He's admitted being offensive but says being defined as a "racist comedian" was wrong and I'd tend to agree.

 

He's fucked though - its being heard by a jury and the mirror are using clips from his tv show where as we discussed at the time he satarised racism quite well but it was too subtle for morons.

 

If the jury is as thick as the Rednapp one he may as well give up now.

 

I've done jury service. They will be

[PaddockLad 14665]

That's the point, there has to be evidence, and if Frankie Boyle feels like he can take it to court and win, I'd wager there isn't.

 

The problem isn't him getting stick, abuse is fine, it's libel that's the problem. You can call his material sick, perverted, offensive, childish, moronic, whatever. You can't say that he's a racist. Especially when the piece in question is him mocking racism by portraying a character who is racist, in a manner as to have the audience laugh at the racism. Otherwise you'd have to level the same accusations at Ed Norton and every other performer that portrayed a racist.

 

Basically the Mirror went for a cheap shot at a controversial man because they thought they'd sell papers and get away with it.

 

Agreed, but it wasnt on the front page as far as I can make out so the Mirror's lawyer just says that it would be difficult to sell a paper on the back of a story printed on page 12 or whatever it was. I understand completley why its in court, its just that at the end of the day it comes down to what you find more offensive, taking the piss out of the disabled or being accused of racism. He can only defend himself in court because he's made a fortune out of that sort of humour, and then when somone takes a cheap shot at him he acts all hurt. Goes with the territory iyam, maybe he should try and expose some of the more ridiculous overreactions to the whole race thing in this country with his humour if he wanted to succinctly make his point.

[The Fish 9040]

Agreed, but it wasnt on the front page as far as I can make out so the Mirror's lawyer just says that it would be difficult to sell a paper on the back of a story printed on page 12 or whatever it was. I understand completley why its in court, its just that at the end of the day it comes down to what you find more offensive, taking the piss out of the disabled or being accused of racism. He can only defend himself in court because he's made a fortune out of that sort of humour, and then when somone takes a cheap shot at him he acts all hurt. Goes with the territory iyam, maybe he should try and expose some of the more ridiculous overreactions to the whole race thing in this country with his humour if he wanted to succinctly make his point.

 

Sorry but you're missing the point. If a comedian had, in a sketch or as part of his act made a joke about Frankie Boyle being a racist, then that's one thing. If a News publication calls him a racist, that's another thing entirely. It's not about Frankie Boyle being offended, it's about his career, his livelihood. If he doesn't fight this case, that's it, game over, he's a racist. Just like Bernard Manning. Which he quite obviously isn't.

 

He's a comedian who portrayed a racist to mock racism. He's not a racist, nor did he tell a racist joke. It's not about him getting stick, it's the unshakeable label "Racist", which could potentially end his career. Venues might not book him because of fears that local anti-racism groups (who are more bothered about getting tv-time than they are fighting racism) will protest and tar the venue with the Racist brush. TV Shows won't book him because they're afraid of the backlash.

 

If he had told a racist joke I'd support the efforts to out him, but he didn't, so he shouldn't be labelled a racist.

[PaddockLad 14665]

He's admitted being offensive but says being defined as a "racist comedian" was wrong and I'd tend to agree.

 

He's fucked though - its being heard by a jury and the mirror are using clips from his tv show where as we discussed at the time he satarised racism quite well but it was too subtle for morons.

 

If the jury is as thick as the Rednapp one he may as well give up now.

 

I thought they were doing away with juries in libel trials?...could be wrong, am not sure whether this government went through with it or it might have been the last one?...

 

didnt know he's had a dig at the "racism" thing, have you got a link for it?....

[PaddockLad 14665]

Sorry but you're missing the point. If a comedian had, in a sketch or as part of his act made a joke about Frankie Boyle being a racist, then that's one thing. If a News publication calls him a racist, that's another thing entirely. It's not about Frankie Boyle being offended, it's about his career, his livelihood. If he doesn't fight this case, that's it, game over, he's a racist. Just like Bernard Manning. Which he quite obviously isn't.

 

He's a comedian who portrayed a racist to mock racism. He's not a racist, nor did he tell a racist joke. It's not about him getting stick, it's the unshakeable label "Racist", which could potentially end his career. Venues might not book him because of fears that local anti-racism groups (who are more bothered about getting tv-time than they are fighting racism) will protest and tar the venue with the Racist brush. TV Shows won't book him because they're afraid of the backlash.

 

If he had told a racist joke I'd support the efforts to out him, but he didn't, so he shouldn't be labelled a racist.

 

Again, the facts will be important in a court of law but there are those who would be up in arms about abusing the disabled who also may possibly use casual racism every day. We've all met that sort of self righteuos character who also happen to buy a lot of papers. If he didnt want his career to be affected maybe he shouldnt have gone down the road of upsetting the moral "majority". You're factually spot on its undeniable, but I think he should take it on the chin if he's made a fortune out of causing offence to others. Outside of the court the facts are irrelevent, he upsets a lot of people and if they feel the need to fuck him over for doing so then it goes with the territory. Lifes not fair, as am sure Jordan could tell him.

[The Fish 9040]

Again, the facts will be important in a court of law but there are those who would be up in arms about abusing the disabled who also may possibly use casual racism every day. We've all met that sort of self righteuos character who also happen to buy a lot of papers. If he didnt want his career to be affected maybe he shouldnt have gone down the road of upsetting the moral "majority". You're factually spot on its undeniable, but I think he should take it on the chin if he's made a fortune out of causing offence to others. Outside of the court the facts are irrelevent, he upsets a lot of people and if they feel the need to fuck him over for doing so then it goes with the territory. Lifes not fair, as am sure Jordan could tell him.

Sorry, I know I keep banging this drum, but I think it's important. It's not about causing offence. It's about a libellous accusation.

[PaddockLad 14665]

Sorry, I know I keep banging this drum, but I think it's important. It's not about causing offence. It's about a libellous accusation.

 

But the bottom line is he has caused offence. Thats why he's in court basically defending his right to be as offensive as he likes as long as he's not racist. Its a tricky one, I do understand that. I'm all for freedom of speech but a lot of others would defend their own right to feel offended too. If theyre out to get him by fair means or foul, he maybe shouldve thought twice.

[The Fish 9040]

But the bottom line is he has caused offence. Thats why he's in court basically defending his right to be as offensive as he likes as long as he's not racist. Its a tricky one, I do understand that. I'm all for freedom of speech but a lot of others would defend their own right to feel offended too. If theyre out to get him by fair means or foul, he maybe shouldve thought twice.

He's not being called offensive, he's being called racist. He's in court defending his right to take the piss out of racists, without being called one.

 

The thing with offensive comedian like Boyle and Sadowitz, you choose to watch them, you have to choose to take offence. What the Mirror has done is take something he's said on a tv show that a lot of their readers will not have watched because they find him offensive, and splashed it in front of their faces. Then, to compound that irresponsible act, they've called him a racist. Now all those readers who don't watch Frankie because they don't like him, not only think his comedy is distasteful, but is now also bigoted.

 

Again, he's not taking the Mirror to court because he's offended (or wants to offend). He's taking them to court because they've lied. You have to separate your dislike of his material from the facts of the case. It's no different to calling him a thief, or a rapist of a kiddy fiddler. He's not guilty of being a racist, so a newspaper cannot report him as such and print it as fact.

 

If he off-stage and out of character, stated as fact that the Mirror journalist fucked his mother, that journo would have every right to sue for slander.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

In the dentist waiting room having just had several injections

[PaddockLad 14665]

He's not being called offensive, he's being called racist. He's in court defending his right to take the piss out of racists, without being called one.

 

The thing with offensive comedian like Boyle and Sadowitz, you choose to watch them, you have to choose to take offence. What the Mirror has done is take something he's said on a tv show that a lot of their readers will not have watched because they find him offensive, and splashed it in front of their faces. Then, to compound that irresponsible act, they've called him a racist. Now all those readers who don't watch Frankie because they don't like him, not only think his comedy is distasteful, but is now also bigoted.

 

Again, he's not taking the Mirror to court because he's offended (or wants to offend). He's taking them to court because they've lied. You have to separate your dislike of his material from the facts of the case. It's no different to calling him a thief, or a rapist of a kiddy fiddler. He's not guilty of being a racist, so a newspaper cannot report him as such and print it as fact.

 

If he off-stage and out of character, stated as fact that the Mirror journalist fucked his mother, that journo would have every right to sue for slander.

 

You're literal interpretation of this is spot on, but life isnt like that. If the "moral majority" are out to get him, lead by the media, then its likely he's Donald Ducked. I don't think he deserves it as such, but I would add what does he fuckin expect? People are nasty, and so is he for money, regardless of what he's like off stage or whatever. If it goes against him he'll only have himself to blame.

[The Fish 9040]

You're literal interpretation of this is spot on, but life isnt like that. If the "moral majority" are out to get him, lead by the media, then its likely he's Donald Ducked. I don't think he deserves it as such, but I would add what does he fuckin expect? People are nasty, and so is he for money, regardless of what he's like off stage or whatever. If it goes against him he'll only have himself to blame.

Disagree with this entirely. The people who're offended by him don't watch him. Those that tend to get offended by him are hearing his stuff second hand. The parties to blame for people being offended are the papers that relay his act to them.

 

They have the responsibility for offending their readers by putting offensive stuff in a newspaper. Same as the Daily Mail stating as fact the country is over-run by AIDs ridden immigrant homosexual Muslim fanatics.

 

I'd rather have a thousand comics telling offensive jokes, than a rag like the mirror. Even if those comics were telling offensive jokes about me.

[Happy Face 29]

Any comedian worth their salt has offended someone. Russel Howard and Tim Vine would make for a dull world of stand up.

 

Each comedian chooses their targets and alligns them self with a demographic. Al Murray and Boyle aren't racist, their fans are. At least, just fans of theirs without the capacity for ironic thought who still miss Frank Carson.

 

Frankie Boyle is not duty bound to accept charges of racism without explaining to moronic j journalists an the court (and by extension, his audience) why he isn't racist, and why they're thick if they think he is.

[PaddockLad 14665]

Any comedian worth their salt has offended someone. Russel Howard and Tim Vine would make for a dull world of stand up.

 

Each comedian chooses their targets and alligns them self with a demographic. Al Murray and Boyle aren't racist, their fans are. At least, just fans of theirs without the capacity for ironic thought who still miss Frank Carson.

 

Frankie Boyle is not duty bound to accept charges of racism without explaining to moronic j journalists an the court (and by extension, his audience) why he isn't racist, and why they're thick if they think he is.

 

No,its just that Frankie Boyles fans aren't easily offended. His detractors tell the world that they are personally offended by his material wherever they heard it As you say, theres an off button. But thats not going to make nasty, vindictive people like journalists and those who are suckered by them shut up. And neither is it going to shut the likes of Boyle or as Fish mentioned Jerry Sadowitz up either. I see the points and largely agree but I just cant help thinking that you reap what you sow in life. Upset the wrong people and you pay whether you are morally or legally in the right. So Frankie can have his day in court on the back of (some) jokes about the disabled, because he's now worth a gazillion pounds more than when he was offensive as a student or a social worker when all it wouldve earned him was maybe a smack in the jaw in some bar somewhere...the stakes are higher now, as has been pointed out its his career on the line if it goes against him. Nobody forced him to do it mind...