Rayvin

Far better off with KCG answering that one, I'm a recent convert. If I had to say, I'd imagine that a hard border would be worth the price to many Scots. I'd be ok with it personally.

Did he actually say that?

I agree with everything he's saying here and think it's smart that he is writing it in the Telegraph

I think I'm just done with democracy as you said further up and as I have said myself repeatedly. Gonna join KCG with the SNP vote though, an independent Scotland can't come soon enough.

Resigned membership as well but didn't want to mention it earlier because you'll doubtless be on at me again for flip flopping and tbf I did say I was going to quit after voting Starmer but i never got around to it. This is now twice I've resigned from the party due to their EU stance though. Once under Corbyn and now under Starmer. Fairly consistent on this point

Don't really disagree with any of that, but in the end this is a deeply held issue for me and one that I can't find it in myself to budge from. I mean it does affect me quite directly which is perhaps partially why. Either way though, I can't follow the party into this particular direction. And from the party's point of view, they have weighed my loss against the gains of the redwallers. They want them, not me. There's not all that much more to it.

I'm struggling to see it in the initial post, especially since the two statements it's couched between are both quite possibly accurate. Yes Starmer may set the foundations for a return, and yes I have given up on democracy. It's worth noting though that Starmer appears to me to be pragmatic above everything else. He isn't going to push us back towards the EU on principle, only if there are votes in it. Therefore it makes sense for me to hold my vote ransom if i ever want to see this happen. Not that I actually matter at all, but you get the idea. I stuck wi

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but i don't give a fuck who you blame - the idea that you think I can be shamed into voting labour based on this feeble logic is kind of hilarious. Blame me if it helps you sleep at night though.

I would tbf.

So you think that Labour will win power and then take us back into the EU?

It genuinely is - having been in a pretty difficult place for the past couple of years, I can say that being up here has helped me immeasurably. I'll be reluctant to go back, if the time ever comes.

Yeah I did it with Miliband, I remember what you're "meant" to do. But to some extent the party still has to represent you.

So my voting position becomes 100% "I hate the Tories". Because atm at least, Labour don't appear to stand for anything whatsoever. Again, pragmatism I'm sure, but apart from deciding they support Brexit, they've abstained on pretty much everything else. I get it, they're working out how to position themselves - but it's clear that this position is going to be over to the red wall voters. And great, I hope that works out for them, but my vote is not guaranteed, I've compromised more than I ever wanted to and at some point it has to stop. I mean it makes no difference anyway, I'm "r

Between Dumfries and Glasgow, one of the little villages down there. Slightly nearer to Dumfries tbf. I'll be moving soon but still in the area. I'm here in part because my Mum needs some support atm (as did I when I went, I suppose), and in part because coronavirus has sort of stopped me going back for what was supposed to just be a few months Ultimately I'm just rudderless right now but I do prefer living up here to being in England, I can say that very readily.

I've compromised enough. I've compromised all the way from basically supporting the vast majority of the Corbyn program to whatever watered down versions Starmer is going to put out, but I'm not stepping over the line on Brexit. “I wish we weren’t in the situation we are in now. But I think that trying to reopen those debates and those old wounds, I don’t think it will help the country move on and I don’t think it will help the Labour Party move on. “I don’t see that we’re going to be in a position that in the next election we’re going to be campaigning to go back into the EU

What is the point in voting for something you don't believe in? This isn't rhetorical, I'm genuinely wanting an answer to this.

I agree that there's no way back, but in the end what's the point in my vote if I'm not actually standing behind something I believe in? I have been a supporter of an ever closer union with the EU from even before all this fucking nonsense started - if I keep abandoning principle after principle then my vote is meaningless. It's just an empty, vague thing that I throw around without understanding it. If I don't vote for the things I care about, then why should I even pay attention? I'm not going to be able to vote Labour if they're pro-Brexit.

At the moment I am. Honestly if they ever get that second referendum and I'm not living in Scotland at that point I'd be over the border in a heartbeat. But aye, I'm up near Glasgow at the moment.

Not on Twitter. And he won't win if he doesn't take young urban people with him. Not sure he's going to manage that bit tbh. As for me, I'm just one vote - I don't give a shit what happens, couldn't be more disillusioned, but I'm not voting for a pro-Brexit party. That's just the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

Struggling to care. Too many lines in the sand being crossed. Labour can't just barrel over to the red wall and expect zero consequences on the other side. If they aren't in a pro-EU position, no matter how ridiculous that might look at the time, no matter how pragmatic they're being, I'll find it very difficult to vote for them. Aye but maybe they'll be weak enough to give Scotland indyref2 and then some of us can be rid of this nightmare.

https://labourlist.org/2020/10/we-wont-be-back-in-the-eu-rachel-reeves-sets-out-labours-brexit-policy/?fbclid=IwAR3a_Y9s1M97iICdsHHWEjmjI5rkt5YJswaHbk5tUF9CFVjnBpAM7MPIUTI Labour has given up on Britain being back in the EU and is now in a pro-Brexit position. I understand this, the ship has sailed etc. Unfortunately though, the pro-EU stance was why i voted for Starmer. Not sure I'll find many reasons to vote for him next time based on this. Or at all, frankly.

How many years do we write off for this lockdown? I suspect we're at about a decade of austerity ahead. It could get worse. I'm not at all blind to the arguments for locking down here but we aren't living the fallout yet. My entire adult life has been austerity, Tories, and complete political depression - it looks like i might be able to say that when I'm 60 as well.

This is all wearing on me now - I think I'm almost in the camp of wanting them just to open everything up again because dying from COVID in the coming few months would be preferable to economic armageddon that creates a completely shit living situation for the next 20 years, doubtless accompanied by the return of austerity.

It's hard to know the answer to this because the left wing are going out of their way to find problems. Abstaining on torture hasn't gone down well. There's also a lot of frustration about him not really opposing the government on anything concerning their COVID responses. Personally I think the criticisms lack nuance at this point and that a lot of what he is doing is political manoevering to gain back voters, but i think its fair to say that I'm "concerned". We'll see what happens but he seems more a politician than a man of principle to me. Maybe that's what we need

Isn't he 14 points down at the moment? I think the biggest gap in the polls when he went up against Clinton was 11. So it's going to have to be even more of a comeback than last time.