Kitman

Butt's more of a pensioner than a player tbh

I'm waiting for JFK to say "I couldn't be more pleased, it's just like a new signing". That makes 7 new signings when added to Viduka, Martins and Smith, which is just what we needed; with this amount of new faces coming in, survival is a certainty. Oh, hang on a minute.....

If we're relying on Smith to save us, we're fucked. with a golden shower on top

Exactly. Plus would you want your brand worn by a foul mouthed pot bellied old pikey, with a greasy salt n pepper quiff to boot, talking shite at press conferences? Bit harsh on Peasepud.

Exactly. Plus would you want your brand worn by a foul mouthed pot bellied old pikey, with a greasy salt n pepper quiff to boot, talking shite at press conferences?

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this: 1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill. 2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements) 3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role. The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on. To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail. these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window". Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect. There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact. This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on. I think Spurs are looking for a back up plan for "the plan" and perhaps a back up even to that ""plan"". 'Arry will just keep buying players without selling the ones he doesn't want. Till they end up with a first team squad of about 50 players. That's the new 'plan'. That's what 'Arry does innit.

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this: 1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill. 2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements) 3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role. The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on. To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail. these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window". Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect. There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact. This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on. I understand your perspective re Freddy. The comment was meant to be more a light hearted throwaway than anything else but it's fair enough to pull me up on it. I've got no desire to debate the old board - their time is past - but they're looking like a fckn golden age right now. The main thrust of my post was really trying to guess what the Ashley 'plan' is, assuming there is one. As you can probably tell, I'm highly sceptical of whether it would actually work anyway - it seems they're trying to achieve success on the cheap, which as we all know is not possible in this day and age. It's rubbish to suggest Arsenal have achieved what they have on the basis of no investment in players. Also they've significantly improved the players in their squad and I don't think we have shown any signs of that in recent history. The idea that football can be approached like a standard business is really nonsensical imo; if prem history teaches us anything, it's that getting the right man as manager and backing them with sufficient funds is the beginning and end of how to be successful, everything else flows from that. In other words, far more important than any system, plan, or even recruitment of players, is the right man as manager. As we all know this is very hard to do and imo requires a great deal of thought, consultation, vision, jusdgement and most importantly luck. They haven't got that right with JFK however, it's obvious. As long as he's there, it doesn't matter how good the 'plan' is, or how logical it is on paper, it's not going to work. imho of course.

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this: 1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill. 2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements) 3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role. The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on. To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

Dang it Parky, I thought you were going to name an undiscovered Fabrigas alike in the reserves who could play instead of Nicky Butt

Doomed

That bid summit in full: Ashley "So Dennis, this is the list of our targets then?" Wise "Yes Mike. I've only gone for realistic targets, with good resale value. Some of them are a bit older than we usually like, but needs must and all of that given our league position." Ashley "Let's have a look at this lot then. Hmmmm, this sounds good Dennis! Kaka 5m. Gerrard 6m. Ronaldhino 3m - not sure about that one, Dennis, he's getting on a bit now!. Messi 7m. Bit steep maybe? No? Totti 4m, I've heard of him, love the name. Very good, Dennis, I like the look of this, get onto it right away and let's see how many of these geezers we can bring in." Wise "Yes boss. Gotta go now, get started and all. Ha ha mmmmpphhh" * Wise bites knuckle. His shoulders begin to shake and he quickly leaves the room. Howling laughter heard in the distance *

Overrated imo. And didn't Birmingham get relegated on his watch? He'd fit right in then! I can't stand Bruce, he's in the same category as O'Leary - every time I saw them on the telly, talking shite and smiling smugly out how wonderful they thought they are, I wanted to vomit. For all his 'boyhood dreams' crapola he'd be off like a shot if a bigger club came in for him, that's what he does.

Nah, it's fabulous here really. It's like every large city, there are some rough bits and people on a downward spiral. There's no comparison to UK cities in terms of crime though, somewhere like Bristol is more violent, although obviously I've just made that up.

These transfers were presumably to cover Beye and Barton, so yes. So you think Mike would have went into tonight not even breaking even at least? Because im not so sure. I'm trying to be charitable. Why he didn't reinvest all of the Given/N'Zogbia funds is beyond me, especially on another CM is beyond me. In fact a pacey CM who can play RM if needed. Let's hope we don't pay for his folly at the end of the season.

If this is true, why offer Kinnear a 3 and a half year contract not so long ago? Unless Kinnear was lying of course *reels back in shock at the thought *

It could be like a whole new signing indeed Imagine the sheer shock in the football world if Alan Smith banged in 15 goals by the end of the season and kept us up ... a boy can dream. Sadly I would need soft drugs to make the leap of imagination You got any handy like? If you're in Auckland anytime soon..... Challenging to get anything too hard down there tbf oo-er missus! If you want methamphetamine, this is the place for you Kids stuff, man.. Or mongs' stuff, but surprisingly popular. Which explains the high number of inept raids on newsagents by wacked out crazies here.

These transfers were presumably to cover Beye and Barton, so yes.

It could be like a whole new signing indeed Imagine the sheer shock in the football world if Alan Smith banged in 15 goals by the end of the season and kept us up ... a boy can dream. Sadly I would need soft drugs to make the leap of imagination You got any handy like? If you're in Auckland anytime soon..... Challenging to get anything too hard down there tbf oo-er missus! If you want methamphetamine, this is the place for you

Apparently Wise gets 1.2m a year for his expertise. If he's in charge of first team transfers we should get a large chunk of that back imo

It could be like a whole new signing indeed Imagine the sheer shock in the football world if Alan Smith banged in 15 goals by the end of the season and kept us up ... a boy can dream. Sadly I would need soft drugs to make the leap of imagination You got any handy like? If you're in Auckland anytime soon.....

Same place as Ashely and his 20 mill transfer fund. Nowhere-to-be-fckn-seen

Is that Woodgate having a go between the sticks?

It could be like a whole new signing indeed Imagine the sheer shock in the football world if Alan Smith banged in 15 goals by the end of the season and kept us up ... a boy can dream. Sadly I would need soft drugs to make the leap of imagination

Still, the numpties who spend all their time jizzing over the state of the balance sheet will be happy. See, thats teenagers though, spend all day jizzing over their sheets Of course Fat Mike has other people to launder his sheets after he's wiped his arse on them. I've gone too far, I'll get me coat.

It could be like a whole new signing indeed