Kitman

Ye Gods. Just when you think things couldn't get more farcical, they sound like cocking up the next managerial appointment! Terry Vegetables is a busted flush. What's the point? They should have been thinking about the next manager for months. I guarantee they'll not have given a moment's thought, and won't until poor old Joe's on the operating table and banned from going back to work. We need an appointment for the next 5 years (5 year plan anyone?) rather than another washed up knobjockey old mate of Dennis Wise. If we're to make any progress at all we need somebody in touch with the modern game. Bloody clowns

I do think that's what he meant to say tbf, although it didn't come out like that. Based on experience to date, my guess is any extra would be funded out of transfers out. The exit of Owen and Viduka, which seems inevitable to me, may free up some additional funds for free transfers or bargains.

Did anything ever happen with the investigation into the toon/Freddy Shepherd? Still think criminal charges were in order over the Boumsong transfer, for the misrepresentation of him as an international footballer if nothing else.

If you wanna discuss that kinda stuff, I suggest you take a look at http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?showtopic=23107 God no, I'm not going in there

After Joe Kinnear has subjected them to his Crazy Gang style team building methods - i.e. spraying Ralgex on their undies, setting fire to their clothes and shitting in their shoes - that number will rapidly shrink to zero.

Isn't this idea against European Union rules for EU nationals? ie non discrimination/freedom of movement of labour

In reality there's very little in the interview that we didn't know already. So much of the club's problems come back to Ashley's decision to buy the club without bothering to inspect the books first and figuring out whether he was happy to put the money required in. So we should be grateful for his rashness and stupidity. No doubt he inherited significant debts and cash commitments but that's par for the course for many clubs. I refuse to be grateful for keeping us out of receivership, that's also to e expected. I don't see any other clubs - Spurs, West Ham, Villa - who have spent more than us and presumably have less wealthy owners, going into administration. Instead of significant net investment in the first team (the Villa model) we have a "5 year plan", which basically consists of slashing the wage bill by shifting out the high earners and getting in cheaper replacements, some (but not all) of which are journeymen and free transfers. We're relying on home grown talent to supplement the first team, the only problem being there isn't any and the influx of talented youngsters won't bear fruit for a few years yet, if at all. So we're pinning our hopes on the Academy and Reserves abiility to bring players through to Prem standard, something they've largely been unable to do in the past. Of course there's no detail of this "5 year plan" but that may be in the next instalments of the interview. A plan that's devised by people who admit they know nothing about football, have presided over the KK debacle, sold players and not reinvested the money in the first team, given Butt and Ameobi new contracts, offered Joe Kinnear a long term contract (apparently), introduced the DoF crapola shunned by every other club in England, and generally treated the club like a cut price corner shop. Forgive me if I'm not wetting myself with excitement at this point.

At last, a bit of pace up front. Could be our saviour. Handy with a cross too. Etc. He gets nailed on crosses tbh. Good reputation for saves though.

It's underwhelming stuff tbh. Why the faith in Johnson btw? Is he actually any good, even assuming City could be persuaded to sell? Doesn't he have recurrent injury problems anyway?

That, or the pressure's starting to get to Dennis Wise

Poor fella, he should have a nice drink or two to cheer himself up

Ye Gods, I'm sorry I wandered in here

It might be those players but I'd be gobsmacked if it wasn't 4-4-2 with Duff at LW. Of course the players could just play 4-3-3 when they get on the pitch

His contract's coming up for renewal at the end of the season and lo and behold he's magically fit again for the run in. Funny that.

Butt's more of a pensioner than a player tbh

I'm waiting for JFK to say "I couldn't be more pleased, it's just like a new signing". That makes 7 new signings when added to Viduka, Martins and Smith, which is just what we needed; with this amount of new faces coming in, survival is a certainty. Oh, hang on a minute.....

If we're relying on Smith to save us, we're fucked. with a golden shower on top

Exactly. Plus would you want your brand worn by a foul mouthed pot bellied old pikey, with a greasy salt n pepper quiff to boot, talking shite at press conferences? Bit harsh on Peasepud.

Exactly. Plus would you want your brand worn by a foul mouthed pot bellied old pikey, with a greasy salt n pepper quiff to boot, talking shite at press conferences?

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this: 1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill. 2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements) 3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role. The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on. To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail. these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window". Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect. There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact. This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on. I think Spurs are looking for a back up plan for "the plan" and perhaps a back up even to that ""plan"". 'Arry will just keep buying players without selling the ones he doesn't want. Till they end up with a first team squad of about 50 players. That's the new 'plan'. That's what 'Arry does innit.

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this: 1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill. 2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements) 3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role. The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on. To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail. these sort of posts, ie the ones that talk about grand "plans". are all well and good, but you let yourself down by making cheap shots at the old regime for their "lack of planning", in particular the phrase "Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window". Stuff like this mate is unnecessary and also very very untrue. I could give you a whole shitload of players who were signed nowhere near the end of the transfer window, including some very good astute buys, at good prices, with the potential to get better, that improved the team.......and most of all, achieved good league positions, certainly much better than Ashley will ever achieve with his blinkered view, which is either short term or completely clueless, or a mixture of both which is what I suspect. There is nothing wrong with making last minute transfer deals, nor is there anything wrong with "trophy players". Lots of clubs, some of them big clubs, have just made them, and are in a much better position just now than us. Its a pity we didn't make a few more in fact. This is not a defence of anyone in particular on the old board, but it most definitely a defence of how they did things because sometimes, quite often in fact, they got it spot on. I understand your perspective re Freddy. The comment was meant to be more a light hearted throwaway than anything else but it's fair enough to pull me up on it. I've got no desire to debate the old board - their time is past - but they're looking like a fckn golden age right now. The main thrust of my post was really trying to guess what the Ashley 'plan' is, assuming there is one. As you can probably tell, I'm highly sceptical of whether it would actually work anyway - it seems they're trying to achieve success on the cheap, which as we all know is not possible in this day and age. It's rubbish to suggest Arsenal have achieved what they have on the basis of no investment in players. Also they've significantly improved the players in their squad and I don't think we have shown any signs of that in recent history. The idea that football can be approached like a standard business is really nonsensical imo; if prem history teaches us anything, it's that getting the right man as manager and backing them with sufficient funds is the beginning and end of how to be successful, everything else flows from that. In other words, far more important than any system, plan, or even recruitment of players, is the right man as manager. As we all know this is very hard to do and imo requires a great deal of thought, consultation, vision, jusdgement and most importantly luck. They haven't got that right with JFK however, it's obvious. As long as he's there, it doesn't matter how good the 'plan' is, or how logical it is on paper, it's not going to work. imho of course.

I tend to agree with you Alex. I think the "plan" is this: 1. Short term - bottom half of table. Clear out poor value and older players on high wages. This includes Viduka, Owen, Geremi, Cacapa, Smith, Duff. Balance remaining transfer outgoings with sales of players to generate offsetting transfer incomings. Occasional purchase as necessary, to be balanced by sale of existing squad member. Surpluses to be used to cover operating losses due to wage bill. 2. Medium term - consolidate mid table. Rebalance revenue/wage bill. Improve quality of first team squad with one off purchases of quality players. Must be young and probably foreign - therefore reasonable wage demands and good resale value. Annual transfer budget 20m (based on previous statements) 3. Long term - push for top 6. This to be done by bringing through top quality players from Academy with little outlay, and occasional one off purchase. Annual transfer budget up to 20m. Dennis Wise to oversee recruitment of starlets and senior players in DoF role. The 'plan' has several major shortcomings imo. It assumes there is sufficient quality in the first team squad to tolerate departures and recruitment of lesser talent. It doesn't. It also ignores the prevalence of injuries and suspensions at the club. It assumes we can attract who we like and pay them lesser wages, we can't. It ignores the fact that JFK is a second rate manager. It assumes that you can replicate the success of clubs like Arsenal in bringing through major talent - the jury's out. It places huge faith in Dennis Wise and the scouting team's ability to spot major talent at the age of 16 or 17. And so on. To be fair, it's a better long term plan than Freddy's technique of picking up the phone to Willie McKay on the last day of the transfer window to see who's available. But it's no guarantee of success. The biggest flaw is the failure to bring in a talented long term managerial appointment who can mould the shape of the team. This is what the advocates of Ashley's 'plan' ignore -that to replicate the Arsenal model, you need Arsene Wenger - a man with a huge contact book and a clear vision of how his teams play that is instilled at every level of the club from the Academy upwards. We've got Joe Kinnear. Fail.

Dang it Parky, I thought you were going to name an undiscovered Fabrigas alike in the reserves who could play instead of Nicky Butt

Doomed

That bid summit in full: Ashley "So Dennis, this is the list of our targets then?" Wise "Yes Mike. I've only gone for realistic targets, with good resale value. Some of them are a bit older than we usually like, but needs must and all of that given our league position." Ashley "Let's have a look at this lot then. Hmmmm, this sounds good Dennis! Kaka 5m. Gerrard 6m. Ronaldhino 3m - not sure about that one, Dennis, he's getting on a bit now!. Messi 7m. Bit steep maybe? No? Totti 4m, I've heard of him, love the name. Very good, Dennis, I like the look of this, get onto it right away and let's see how many of these geezers we can bring in." Wise "Yes boss. Gotta go now, get started and all. Ha ha mmmmpphhh" * Wise bites knuckle. His shoulders begin to shake and he quickly leaves the room. Howling laughter heard in the distance *