Suicide

[gram 0]

Cath sorry to her about your friend, it hurts and there is nothing you can do unfortunately.

 

To those calling suicide cowardly, at what point though is it acceptable?

Is someone who is terminally ill cowardly?

Is someone who has lost everything cowardly?

Is someone who isn't prepared to slash their wrists but has lost hope and all self respect cowardly by living a life akin to suicide cowardly?

 

I once saw an interview with Jack Kerouac, I think it was with Jonny Carson, and he was asked why he drunk so much, to which he replied, "I'm catholic and it's a sin to commit suicide but there's nothing in the bible to say I can't drink myself to death."

 

 

 

Legend

 

On the road is awesome too...

Not as good as Big Sur tbh

[The Fish 9103]

if a patient committed suicide then I'd feel a total failure and spend a long time evaluating myself, and getting my peers to do so as well.

 

and to Luke. FFS man I know there are a million psychological situations which can lead to suicide, but I assumed we were talking about the most common. How presumptuous of me. Fucks sake man, just cos I voice an opinion I'm suddenly supposed to cover every base in every fucking answer? Also, as I've said before I am entirely capable of shelving my opinion when professionalism is required, so please keep your presumptions to yourself Luke, you know fuck all about me.

 

and to Sammy, the points about dealing with terminal illness... I don't see that in the same light as suicide. It's hard to describe, I suppose those that seek euthanasia have accepted death and have prepared for it and in many cases have prepared their family for it. With Suicide it's generally a shock to those that are close. They may be aware of the depression but totally in the dark as to how bad it's got.

 

I believe that if you've got life you've not lost everything.

 

finally, those who live life with no self respect or hope are not, despite their belief, hopeless. With the proper support, in whatever form, they can regain their self respect and hope.

 

 

I'm amazed at how simply because of one personal belief, people feel totally comfortable in slating me and my prospects. You know nothing about me other than the persona I put on here. I haven't asked for your opinions about me or my prospects.

[catmag 336]

 

finally, those who live life with no self respect or hope are not, despite their belief, hopeless. With the proper support, in whatever form, they can regain their self respect and hope.

 

 

Yeah, but they have to be in such a place in their head that they can ask for or seek that help. That's not always the case. The quote above sounds like an ideal but you can't always save the world. If my job was to save every life that comes into my care then I'd fail miserably. Not because I hadn't done my damndest, but just because some people can't be saved.

 

This is possibly going to sound patronising, and I really don't want it to so I've thought about it for a bit before I started typing this..

 

People are not all textbook cases. After 10 years of working with every kind of person imaginable on a daily basis, I don't even begin to try and understand them. Just when I think I've got some things sussed out, something else will come along and completely disprove everything I thought I know about human nature and peoples actions. I totally respect your point of view. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do respect it. I also think that in time, and if you end up in your profession of choice, that time and experience will maybe show you that your views on things are maybe a tad harsh. Your knowledge and ideas will be challenged on a daily basis and it may surprise you to find that it's actually okay to change your views on things based on those challenges. Embrace it - it's quite a humbling experience.

[catmag 336]

Oh, and I do know more than your persona on here. And in real life you're going bald!

[sammynb 2930]

Oh, and I do know more than your persona on here. And in real life you're going bald!

And sell windows.

[The Fish 9103]

I fully expect that things which I hold to be true now, may in years to come seem ridiculous to me... like carrying a bag around and using an umbrella.

 

it's just a bit galling to have a)your opinions attacked, and 2) your job prospects by some on here. Specifically those that couldn't pick you out of a line up.

 

I totally respect and appreciate that this topic is incredibly complex, there aren't quick fixes, there cannot be a blanket solution because it's entirely subjective. Some things can cross many cases though and I was talking generally. A fact merrily ignored by people who are desperate to rail against someone/something.

 

and I know Cath, you gave your opinion and (justifiably) took offense at my lack of tact and I apologise for that, but at least you had the good grace to understand that at the end of the day, this is an opinion and as such is as malleable and prone to change as any abstract. Others haven't, they have this dramatic image of me culling depressed people without sympathy.

 

I used to think that all people who went to public school were snobs, out of touch with real life. I've lived with 6 public school bods for the past two years and can say that the cartoon I'd created is bollocks.

 

just as it's ok to laugh at the shit on this board, about "if you have a manbag you're a gay" "If you watch a certain tv show you're a charver"

 

it's ok to make sweeping generalisations about those things because people, generally, don't take it too seriously. I made an error in judgment here by voicing an opinion that is probably quite harsh to most without wording it better.

 

Don't really think it vindicated the shit I got in return but c'est la vie.

 

anyhoo, I'm rambling now.

[Meenzer 14132]

It's weird, because when you travel on public transport in London and there's a "passenger incident" every other day (or what feels like it), you start to become desensitised to what those words - and even the less euphemistic "suicide" - actually mean.

 

Nobody I know well has actually committed suicide, though several have been depressed to the point where (in sober contemplation) it's seemed like a realistic possibility, and an old schoolmate of the Smoothster and myself was a Tyne Bridge case about a year ago. In a way, even when it's someone who's a degree or two removed from you, it still hits home like a bullet because it's all so much more mundane, just some words on a page saying "this happened" rather than a mesh of confusing and conflicting emotions. There but for the grace of God, and all that.

 

I've been in a place where I made a pretty half-arsed attempt at it myself. Not for attention, I hasten to add (I made a deliberate attempt to research realistic methods that'd cause the least amount of distress and disturbance, inasmuch as that was possible in pre-Internet days - but that particular information source and its contribution to the issue is a whole different kettle of fish), but weirdly, because of a very quiet, non-melodramatic, lucid acceptance that it didn't really matter to me, at that time, whether I continued to exist or not. At the same time, I obviously wasn't committed enough to do something with absolutely no kind of room for probability or chance, so by some definitions I suppose I was being cowardly about being cowardly. But like I say, it was more a case of "let's see what happens" - if it works, it works, if not then we'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

I've been nowhere even near that point since then, and a hell of a lot of time (and experience) has gone by. I consider myself fortunate not to have succeeded, given how my life's turned out and the effects a person's suicide invariably seem to trigger in those who knew him/her. Moreover, though, I consider myself a pretty rational person (then as well as now), so even if I've changed enough to be unable to revisit exactly what put me in that kind of position in the first place, I try not to be too quick to judge others who feel the need to go through with it. Whatever their motivations may be.

 

(And for what it's worth, I realise Fish-bashing is a popular sport on here and his initial comments were ill-timed, but regardless of whether I agree with them or not - and by and large I probably don't - I reckon he's defended his corner pretty well since then.)

 

To help avoid this post appearing too me-me-me (and, ironically, borderline attention-seeking), I'll add that a friend of mine attempted to kill himself by taking an overdose, driven to it as a young teenager by the death of a parent and a pretty horrible "new" family situation. I can't imagine the person he's become not being around now, but then I suppose he wasn't that person at the time. In fact, I'm probably (still) far more affected by the idea of him having come close to death than he is himself. At the same time, I also know frequent self-harmers who, by their own admission, have come dangerously close to harming themselves terminally without setting out with the intention of actually doing so. Would they count as suicide cases if "successful"? I don't know. It's an overwhelmingly confusing subject really.

[peasepud 59]

Oh, and I do know more than your persona on here. And in real life you're going bald!

And sell windows.

 

and doesnt tan well

[sammynb 2930]

Oh, and I do know more than your persona on here. And in real life you're going bald!

And sell windows.

 

and doesnt tan well

and has trouble with women

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I've attempted to write a response this thread a few times but it always sounds shit so I keep starting again.

 

Difficult subject, I think the Tyne Bridge lot who ultimately don't jump are attention seeking, but the majority of people who commit suicide have serious mental health issues. I've stopped someone from taking an overdose, it was a just in the nick of time moment, and it wasn't pretty.

[Toonraider 0]

Ive just worked night shift and im really drained, maybe thats why i found this thread pretty heavy going. Have to say my emotions and views were swayed quite dramatically as i read each of your views. You all expressed yourselves so well, i feel quite divided as i can see both points of view clearly.

 

I've seen a 10 yr old school mate run indoors after school one afternoon to look up and find her dad hanging at the top of the stairs...whatever his reasons, even with his tortured mind, surely he must have known who would be sure to find him first? Didnt he give that any thought? I suppose that shows how much pain and torment he was in not to let that thought stop him

[JawD 31]

A friend of mine hung himself in his mothers house 5 or so years ago. he seemed fine and none of us expected it. The thing that got to most people is that why if something was causing him so much stress/worry/anxiety didnt he talk to anyone about it. Therein lies the problem. I think this is the case with many who do this, they have had enough of a particular situation.

 

Someone earlier said life wasnt that great? Well I think its fantastic. Sitting at home board you still have the option to do anything you want. You dont have that option once you're gone. Many of these people (imo) are desparate to get out of situation but are so wound up in it wouldnt know where to start. This is why they need councelling. I bet of all those who have carried out the act would have been thankful to have had someone talk to them about their "issue" and try to unravel it.

 

Me personally? I just cant ever see things getting that bad. Though i guess thats easy to say until you are in the situation yourself.

[snakehips 0]

On the 'Easy' matter.

 

If one has come to the conclusion that life has nothing to offer anymore - for whatever reason(s) - then to decide on suicide is surely the actions of someone who has lost all rationale.

 

If the decision has been made that suicide is the course of action, then maybe, just maybe, it is easy for the person i.e. that climbing that bridge, or whatever the course of events are, is actually an easy (in their mindset) thing to do as it a means to the end; the end being ulitimate relief from the pain/anguish they are suffering.

 

????

[Gemmill 35307]

On the 'Easy' matter.

 

If one has come to the conclusion that life has nothing to offer anymore - for whatever reason(s) - then to decide on suicide is surely the actions of someone who has lost all rationale.

 

If the decision has been made that suicide is the course of action, then maybe, just maybe, it is easy for the person i.e. that climbing that bridge, or whatever the course of events are, is actually an easy (in their mindset) thing to do as it a means to the end; the end being ulitimate relief from the pain/anguish they are suffering.

 

????

 

I can see what you're saying, but I can't imagine any way that, on the verge of doing something like that, that it's an easy thing to go through with. To know that seconds or minutes from now you'll no longer be alive. That's got to be fucking hard to go through with whatever method you choose to do it.

 

I've always said on these threads in the past that it's something I could never do because of the impact it would have on the people you left behind - it would destroy my mam - but I don't think the act itself is cowardly. In a funny sort of way, I think you'd maybe need to be pretty brave to go through with it.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

I think the point is, people in this situation are neither brave or cowardly. To get to this point they're not thinking straight, they don't care if there's life after death for example, they just want the pain to stop.

[Craig 6321]

I think the point is, people in this situation are neither brave or cowardly. To get to this point they're not thinking straight, they don't care if there's life after death for example, they just want the pain to stop.

 

Pretty much....

 

The time I was bad, I can't even recall these days but I'm told I simply stopped caring about absolutely everything in my life. It's as though a period of my life has been wiped from my memory. Glad I managed to snap out of it and come out stronger.

[Smooth Operator 10]

An old mate of mine jumped off the Tyne Bridge about a year ago. He was into drugs and had mental health issues. He landed outside the Akenside thankfully not hitting anyone else. Don't think he or most think about where they might land or if they will hurt anyone else.

[adios 717]

I fully expect that things which I hold to be true now, may in years to come seem ridiculous to me... like carrying a bag around and using an umbrella.

 

it's just a bit galling to have a)your opinions attacked, and 2) your job prospects by some on here. Specifically those that couldn't pick you out of a line up.

 

I totally respect and appreciate that this topic is incredibly complex, there aren't quick fixes, there cannot be a blanket solution because it's entirely subjective. Some things can cross many cases though and I was talking generally. A fact merrily ignored by people who are desperate to rail against someone/something.

 

and I know Cath, you gave your opinion and (justifiably) took offense at my lack of tact and I apologise for that, but at least you had the good grace to understand that at the end of the day, this is an opinion and as such is as malleable and prone to change as any abstract. Others haven't, they have this dramatic image of me culling depressed people without sympathy.

 

How snide! You can't be argued with; if you don't linke what your clients say, just shout them down. I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

Not what I wanted this thread to turn into, so let's leave it.

[adios 717]

Someone earlier said life wasnt that great? Well I think its fantastic. Sitting at home board you still have the option to do anything you want. You dont have that option once you're gone. Many of these people (imo) are desparate to get out of situation but are so wound up in it wouldnt know where to start. This is why they need councelling. I bet of all those who have carried out the act would have been thankful to have had someone talk to them about their "issue" and try to unravel it.

 

That sounds spot on, particularly the last sentence.

[Guest Patrokles]

Someone earlier said life wasnt that great? Well I think its fantastic. Sitting at home board you still have the option to do anything you want. You dont have that option once you're gone. Many of these people (imo) are desparate to get out of situation but are so wound up in it wouldnt know where to start. This is why they need councelling. I bet of all those who have carried out the act would have been thankful to have had someone talk to them about their "issue" and try to unravel it.

 

That sounds spot on, particularly the last sentence.

 

My point earlier with life not being great was also linked to my other point about being faced by an issue that doesn't go away with talking. The notion that everything can be solved with a good chinwag is fundamentally flawed when medical/ other outside influences are involved. I agree that as long as everything remains within our control, or at least everything that is just about mental approach, then solutions will always present themselves. But there are other situations that are entirely out of our hands and will endure, no matter how positive our outlook.

[JawD 31]

Very much so. Talking about something while migth be nice, doesnt offer you a solution on a plate. However, talking with someone might present itself opportunity of a solution or more likely getting nidged onto the path to the solution.

 

What I mean is, if its financial, there are ways and means to get out of any financial hole, but you need to talk to the right people. If its psychological, again there are ways to ease things and potentially a road to give long term ease. this "can" be the case in many scenarios. Sadly, these people never take that step.

 

Reading what Ive said, I make it sound oh so simple, I know for a fact it couldnt be further from it or apply to all cases, but I bet its a fair old chunk.

[Tom_NUFC 0]

I've never had any first hand experience of suicide before.

But what I have experienced myself is clinical depression, and it made me feel extremely low at times, lower than I'd have ever thought possible prior to me suffering from depression. On those really bad, dark days there were times when I felt that killing myself would be the easy way out, that I was a burden - even a disgrace to family and friends. I never even got close to actually attempting it though, I always pulled around and thought to myself that I would fight through it. It's funny though, I did used to laugh at the prospect of jumping from the Tyne Bridge and always felt it would be cliched.

 

But from having depression, I know for a fact that it completely distorts your feelings. No one thought I was a burden or a disgrace, but you just don't think normally. I had flashes when I had those thoughts that wouldn't people be upset if I did it, and I'd think, well yes, but they'd get over it and be better off without me. It's not true, but because everything's distorted, you believe stuff like that.

 

I don't think it's right that people who commit suicide are cowards. Didn't they think about their family and friends? That's thinking about things logically, which just doesn't happen when you're severely depressed. The answer is, yeah, they probably did and they probably came to the conclusion that they were a burden and friends and family would be better off without them. I can't even imagine how low and how much pain you must feel to seriously even attempt suicide.

 

However, I do get angry about situations when someone committing suicide ends up killing or injuring other people in the process. Again, your mind distorts things, but surely not so much that you'd jeopardise other people? Perhaps it does. I was never as bad as that, so I don't know.

[Renton 17986]

An old mate of mine jumped off the Tyne Bridge about a year ago. He was into drugs and had mental health issues. He landed outside the Akenside thankfully not hitting anyone else. Don't think he or most think about where they might land or if they will hurt anyone else.

 

Pretty sure it was your mate that landed feet away from my colleague - wasn't a pretty sight by all accounts.

 

Now, this one is for the Fish:

 

 

Tortured soul or selfish coward?

[The Fish 9103]

a) not a clue who that is

2) not going to dignify that question with an answer

III) it's a little petty of you to bait me.

[sammynb 2930]

a) not a clue who that is

2) not going to dignify that question with an answer

III) it's a little petty of you to bait me.

Try right clicking on the pic and going to properties if you want a hint.