manc-mag 1 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 How's the Etihad deal relevant? That's just a way round the financial fair play rules isn't it? Etihad is a concoction at the end of the day as you say, but even if it wasn't just a fair play rules sham (ie if it genuinely was the going rate) lets just say it requires a fair bit more indirect financing than the naming fee alone if you take players wages into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Aye, point was however much Ashley has had to pour into ownership due to his fuckups, it's still not cost as much as the daftest deal currently out there. At the time he bought it was "only" £134m though. Spurs get £10m a year just for shirt sponsorship alone, rather than spend £10m a year on a high profile shirt sponsorship deal for Sports Direct, much better to own a club for 10 years at a cost of £13.4m a year, and then sell it and get your money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Still think he'd have done it from day one if that had been his intention tbh. He had plenty of good will from the fans up until KK walked so I don't buy your notion that relegation was what halted his plans. In fact, the first stadium re-brand was post-relegation anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Nothing serious will happen revenue wise till we get back into Europe. @Alex The etihad deal is being looked into apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC. The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL. Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand. Sounds like a plan from day 1. Yeah, well it would have pretty much happened from day 1 if that was the real motivating factor tbh. An element of it would have occured to him (he'd be unlikely to miss the trick tbh) but it wasn't his reason for buying a football club for hundreds of millions of quid. While it's a slightly different way of looking at it, if he was considering buying it now, do you think he would? Would he shite. Plus he's tried to flog us in the interim. It may well be the case now but you'd have to suspend all your critical faculties trying to reverse engineer it into some sort of overall 'plan' from day 1. He says he's tried to sell us. But what he did was go out on the piss and say "£400m or fuck off!". Not exactly Glengarry Glen Ross hunger for the leads. I think he had ideas of doing a great job and renaming things at the height of our success. It would have done him no favours to come in and cut the ribbon on the Donnay stand on day 1. If he goes ahead and sells the naming rights to anyone else, I might think different, as it is though, I think the only thing that slowed his branding push was his own fuck up and subsequent relegation. Well put it this way, I suppose what I have trouble with with the 'SD from day 1' branding theory is the way it's somehow implicit that acquiring NUFC for the price he did was worth hundreds of millions of quid to him simply in branding alone. Because it wasn't. Given the sort of person he is I'd be astonished if he didnt have half a mind on some SD promotional schemes when buying the club, but in terms of being his plan for buying....I don't think so. It's now become this unified theory though and one which is supposed to underpin everything he does from hereon in and everything he has ever done. It's cobblers. As you say yourself it'd have been better if he'd done it for a 'successful' team, which is probably true, but that being so, that remains the case now. So it equally supports the theory he should push us forward on the pitch. Only people don't accept that side of the logic. I don't think he will either necessarily, but not because of the branding theory, just because I think he runs the club on a whim. He'll make money off it because he can make money off it but it's worth little more as an indicator of his plans for NUFC than that. That's kinda where I am with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Aye, point was however much Ashley has had to pour into ownership due to his fuckups, it's still not cost as much as the daftest deal currently out there. At the time he bought it was "only" £134m though. Spurs get £10m a year just for shirt sponsorship alone, rather than spend £10m a year on a high profile shirt sponsorship deal for Sports Direct, much better to own a club for 10 years at a cost of £13.4m a year, and then sell it and get your money back. They get 10m cause they are in London and recently of the CL and seen as regular qualifiers for Europe now. They also have a very good reputation as a brand across Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Aye, point was however much Ashley has had to pour into ownership due to his fuckups, it's still not cost as much as the daftest deal currently out there. At the time he bought it was "only" £134m though. Spurs get £10m a year just for shirt sponsorship alone, rather than spend £10m a year on a high profile shirt sponsorship deal for Sports Direct, much better to own a club for 10 years at a cost of £13.4m a year, and then sell it and get your money back. They get 10m cause they are in London and recently of the CL and seen as regular qualifiers for Europe now. They also have a very good reputation as a brand across Europe. Aye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Are people really calling for Pardew to walk? No matter how much i dont like him he's doing a mint job and has far surpassed anyones expectations this season of what we could achieve. If he walked we'd be well and truly buggered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 7243 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC. The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL. Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand. Sounds like a plan from day 1. Yeah, well it would have pretty much happened from day 1 if that was the real motivating factor tbh. An element of it would have occured to him (he'd be unlikely to miss the trick tbh) but it wasn't his reason for buying a football club for hundreds of millions of quid. While it's a slightly different way of looking at it, if he was considering buying it now, do you think he would? Would he shite. Plus he's tried to flog us in the interim. It may well be the case now but you'd have to suspend all your critical faculties trying to reverse engineer it into some sort of overall 'plan' from day 1. He says he's tried to sell us. But what he did was go out on the piss and say "£400m or fuck off!". Not exactly Glengarry Glen Ross hunger for the leads. I think he had ideas of doing a great job and renaming things at the height of our success. It would have done him no favours to come in and cut the ribbon on the Donnay stand on day 1. If he goes ahead and sells the naming rights to anyone else, I might think different, as it is though, I think the only thing that slowed his branding push was his own fuck up and subsequent relegation. Well put it this way, I suppose what I have trouble with with the 'SD from day 1' branding theory is the way it's somehow implicit that acquiring NUFC for the price he did was worth hundreds of millions of quid to him simply in branding alone. Because it wasn't. Given the sort of person he is I'd be astonished if he didnt have half a mind on some SD promotional schemes when buying the club, but in terms of being his plan for buying....I don't think so. It's now become this unified theory though and one which is supposed to underpin everything he does from hereon in and everything he has ever done. It's cobblers. As you say yourself it'd have been better if he'd done it for a 'successful' team, which is probably true, but that being so, that remains the case now. So it equally supports the theory he should push us forward on the pitch. Only people don't accept that side of the logic. I don't think he will either necessarily, but not because of the branding theory, just because I think he runs the club on a whim. He'll make money off it because he can make money off it but it's worth little more as an indicator of his plans for NUFC than that. That's kinda where I am with it. I'm sorta there too(especially the cobblers bit), but would add that IMO the "vehicle theory" doesn't stack up for another major reason. MA's SD "wealth" is based upon the performance of that brand and is represented by his shareholding. Any investment SD makes to grow it's business costs MA (personally) nowt, whereas NUFC is absolutely based upon MA's personal funds, he carries all the risk himself. SD has a wobble it effects MA's personal "paper" wealth, NUFC has a wobble it costs MA in the pocket in real money. Two fundamentaly different exposures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Whether he's ' buying low and selling for profit and pocketing the cash' or 'steadily going for European places' (depending on which narrative you subscribe to, he can always make way more money elsewhere. That's the problem in a nutshell for NUFC. The only thing that interested him to start with was acquiring at price x and selling for double or treble in a few years, while dicking about having fun as an owner in the meantime. When the arse fell out of world finance the only real potential NUFC had was to cost him money (ie selling out at a knock down price). There are sensible things he can now do between those two stools, but none of them are interesting enough for him to want to push us into the big league. Narratives as to what he's about now are one thing, but anything suggesting they were always the case from day 1 is a complete nonsense. We can't call anything with certainty beyond: he wants to avoid relegation and he wont spend for the CL. Except that when John Hall sold him his stake he was quoted as saying the new fella wants to use the club to gain international recognition for his brand. Sounds like a plan from day 1. http://fansonline.net/newcastleunited/article.php?id=940 The exact quote I was told that the man behind the deal was Mike Ashley and I sat with his representatives over 3 days thrashing out a deal. I was keen to know why they wanted the club and they were quite honest. They wanted to market their sports goods in the Far East and would use the Club to help do this. To me it made sense to market the Club globally. It was a win win situation for Mike and the Club. We hadn’t done that. Over the 3 days I gave them a lot of advice. When they took over they put Chris Mort in to run things and went private. It was a good move. He’s not a fool and like Mike he came in with the best of intentions. His subsequent departure caused a few problems and Mike made a mistake listening to the likes of Paul Kelmsley at Spurs. This may have been the case up until 2009 but their partnership with Chinese company ITAT met some problems. They initially went with a 'store within a store' positioning. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/feb/05/sportsdirectinternational.retail But then ITAT was bought by a supplier which halted SD plans for the Chinese market http://www.retail-week.com/city/sports-direct-reels-as-profits-dive-and-china-plans-shrivel/5004724.article They then wrote off £4m worth of stock held in China and pull out. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/5979245/Sports-Direct-writes-off-3.6m-of-Chinese-stock.html This occurs in August 2009, in November 2009 they announce sportsdirect@stjamespark.com For me, it doesnt add up to some over-arching strategy because if failure in the far east is writing off £4m worth of stock, then writing off many multiples of that just to have an advertising presence of unknown effectiveness doesnt make much sense. The driver of success in China e.g. is not brand awareness but supply chain and infrastructure (as demonstrated by the failure of the ITAT deal). Until that is in place, the branding is superfluous in this market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon_Man 0 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Is he actually good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Good enough for what? I might delete this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon_Man 0 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 To be the manager you mong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 To what degree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6567 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 He's good enough, and probably cheap enough, for MA. All else is moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4360 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 well...he is our manager and we're 7th in the premier league so yes...yes he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 If you're complaining that we are at 30pts after 19 games, we're 7th, we've got a great striker and we even won the derby - seriously go and support Chelsea or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEADMAN 0 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 well i didn't like pardew when he was announced as manager but were lumbered with him so we have to support him i still dont like him though but hes done ok for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racing_argentina 0 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 i think he is doing a great job, we have to give him more time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27300 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I remain unconvinced. But he has my backing at this moment in time, which I'm certain will reassure him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 I can't think of anyone better who would work with the clowns we've got in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Is he actually good enough? No, I think it was Cyndi Lauper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6567 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I can't think of anyone better who would work with the clowns we've got in charge. This is as near to the truth as owt. Birds of a feather. KK too proud, Shearer too big, Hughton too humble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostile_statue 0 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I can't think of anyone better who would work with the clowns we've got in charge. Aye. The one person I saw as an obvious candidate passed away about a month ago. Not that he would work for Ashley, but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 39421 Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 If he gets us back to Europe , he can shag my Mrs. Otherwise, …cunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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