The No. 10.

[Howay 12460]

Rubbish. He's a luxury we can't afford at the moment. Until he's fully up to speed, he is the best impact sub.

Did you watch the game? he just come on and won us a match that had 0-0 written all over it, Best was shocking all match and contributed nowt offensively or defensively which makes him far more of a luxury that Ben Arfa was when he come on.

Ben Arfa freed up Ba as soon as he come onto the pitch, if he'd of started today we'd of been up at the half.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Howay

[Ayatollah Hermione 12767]

Loony Toon is basically watching games froma a padded cell so I wouldn't invest too much time in him.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

There's a reason he has that username

[loonyTOON 10]

Or he could have started and we could have lost. You cant say we'd have been up at the half had he started. He's come on, and been an impact sub like I said. Like he did last week with an assist. Until he learns to do more that just offensive duties, he's a luxury. I've not seen the game today, so I can't comment on Best.

 

I might be Looney, but I know that we need 10 outfield players that give both offensively and defensively. If he starts chasing back when he loses the ball, and looks a little more interested when we're out of possession, then he should rightly start.

 

[Howay 12460]

Neither Best nor Obertan contributed anymore than Ben Arfa defensively yet Ben Arfa made us a threat on the attack as opposed to looking like there was nothing about us in the 60 minutes preceding him. Obertan looks disinterested when he has possession let alone without it. Why comment about this when you've not watched the game? it was clear as day we were a completely different side when Ben Arfa came on, before he come on they were marking Ba very heavily and not really worrying about Best as he was squandering every chance that come to him which made Ba drop deep to get the ball and made him ineffective. I said to myself after just 10 minutes of the game it was exactly the sort of game Ben Arfa would excel in, we were controlling possession and the ball was in Boltons half constantly yet there was nothing about us. If you think Ben Arfa can only contribute as an impact sub you're wrong.

[loonyTOON 10]

Neither Best nor Obertan contributed anymore than Ben Arfa defensively yet Ben Arfa made us a threat on the attack as opposed to looking like there was nothing about us in the 60 minutes preceding him. Obertan looks disinterested when he has possession let alone without it. Why comment about this when you've not watched the game? it was clear as day we were a completely different side when Ben Arfa came on, before he come on they were marking Ba very heavily and not really worrying about Best as he was squandering every chance that come to him which made Ba drop deep to get the ball and made him ineffective. I said to myself after just 10 minutes of the game it was exactly the sort of game Ben Arfa would excel in, we were controlling possession and the ball was in Boltons half constantly yet there was nothing about us. If you think Ben Arfa can only contribute as an impact sub you're wrong.

 

The original post was at half time, when I happened to read the thread, and had nothing to do with the match. I watched him at st James when he came on the other day and a few of his runs, he lost the ball stupidly, when he could of offloaded, and we next dealing with a counter.

 

Obertan just needs confidence. It doesn't help when your own fans are giving you shit. I like the guy, and think in time can be a great player for us like Lennon or Wright-Phillips used to be. But he needs to gain confidence and have us behind him.

 

I also think its shit that people on here are ribbing Pardew for not starting Ben Arfa. If folk on here could manage a team half as well as they can right shit on here, then the footballing world would be full of Geordie managers. Pardew knows what he's doing, ffs look where we are right now. Ben Arfa will start when he is ready, and I have no doubt he'll keep his place in the side once that happens. But he is a luxury that I hope sometime soon we can accommodate regularly.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

Obertan just needs confidence. It doesn't help when your own fans are giving you shit. I like the guy, and think in time can be a great player for us like Lennon or Wright-Phillips used to be. But he needs to gain confidence and have us behind him.

 

A couple of problems with this: firstly, if all you needed was confidence, Nicolas Bentner would be the best player in the world--it's not as though Obertan has everything else in his locker and is just lacking confidence, he's just a pretty shit player who will occasionally contribute something positive. It helps when you have a fullback who, when faced by Obertan, just backs off and falls over without making a challenge, that was the case vs Bolton. Secondly, when were Lennon or Wright-Phillips ever great players for us?

[MattM4 0]

Obertan has had 18 games. How much more time does he need?

 

There are fundamental flaws with the way he plays. Not only does he not produce much, he also has the annoying habit of slowing down our play to a halt. He doesn't really tailor his game to the runs of our forwards or players around him. He is adamant on having his 5-6 touches of the ball no matter what.

 

Not a question of giving up hope completely just yet, but he's deserved to be dropped.

[tinofbeans 86]

he reminds me of someone i used to play football with when i was younger. as sorts of touches, stepovers, and pointless tricks and no end product. he's created 3 goals this season,butit could have been so many more if he could pass the ball correctly. he could have set up even more as paul robinson is a terrible full back. he's up against enrique next and i think he'll (enrique) take him to the cleaners.

[Park Life 70]

I really hate it when people use the word luxury with regard to a gifted player. That first half it looked like football was a 'luxury' there was that much hoofing going on. No surprise then that as soon as HBA came on we started stringing a few passes together in the middle resulting in a goal.

[Ayatollah Hermione 12767]

Genius man management recently from Pardew with HBA tbh

[Aeris 0]

Leon Best - what on earth does he do out there?... Has Pardew gone blind? 60 mins with that piece of shit on instead of lovely Ben Arfa, it's unforgivable Pardew...

Edited December 27, 2011 by Aeris

[Lake Bells tits 1]

If you start connecting the different statements from pardew together, it seems quite obvious that he is not really the kind of player Pardew fancies.

"individualist, luxury player, "talisman", not quite 100% yet, cameon-player " etc. How do you get up to speed from the bench, he needs games.

 

Im getting more and more worried that ben arfa sitting on the bench and pardew not being supportive enough could have other managers with eyes knocking on the door sooner rather than later, with all parties including HBA willing to move on. A few million being made available to pardew following the sale so that he can get yet another "workhorse" in the ridgewell mould in who offers fuck all creativity-wise.

 

Im quite sure that HBA in another club with a manager backing him would make Rossi`s spain spell look like " a few good games".

 

He might not be Lionel Messi, but he is as close as we can possibly hope for on tyne.

[JawD 31]

Something I picked up was is comment "He is a good technical player" with the emphasis being on technical. Almost made me think there was something about him he didnt like, another aspect of his game. Or maybe I was just trying to read into something that wasnt there,

[Guest CabayeAye]

Completely agree with LBT's last post. Pardew just seems to be completely unable to make a system which plays to his best players' strengths. It's as though he decides on a formation out of thin air and then tries to shoehorn the wrong players in.

Edited December 27, 2011 by CabayeAye

[Kid Dynamite 5933]

He's obviously a good player on his day and we have seen glimpses of him this season with a goal and a couple of assists, but there's also the other side of him that goes missing for large periods in a game, gives the ball away trying to beat 3 men and doesn't fancy a 50/50. People are making out like he's the difference between us finishing top 6 or getting relegated. We managed to get to 2nd place after 11 games without him man.

[Park Life 70]

From the french contingent on NO

 

http://www.rmcsport.fr/editorial/213003/d-ba-ben-arfa-va-prouver-qu-il-merite-de-jouer/

 

Demba BA : "Ben arfa will prove that he deserves to play."

 

http://www.rmcsport.fr/editorial/212935/demba-ba-ben-arfa-va-retrouver-son-niveau/

 

D. BA : "Ben arfa will reach/find again his level".

 

BA said that HBA works really hard, he's progressively finding again his physical condition. This goal is great for him.

He also said that it wasn't a easy goal to score but it was simple for Hatem.

Moreover, he said that it's not easy for him to be on the bench but he accepts it and will prove that he deserves to play!

But BA don't worry at all for Hatem, he just needs to carry on playing games...

[Park Life 70]

He's obviously a good player on his day and we have seen glimpses of him this season with a goal and a couple of assists, but there's also the other side of him that goes missing for large periods in a game, gives the ball away trying to beat 3 men and doesn't fancy a 50/50. People are making out like he's the difference between us finishing top 6 or getting relegated. We managed to get to 2nd place after 11 games without him man.

 

That's so misleading.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

He's obviously a good player on his day and we have seen glimpses of him this season with a goal and a couple of assists, but there's also the other side of him that goes missing for large periods in a game, gives the ball away trying to beat 3 men and doesn't fancy a 50/50. People are making out like he's the difference between us finishing top 6 or getting relegated. We managed to get to 2nd place after 11 games without him man.

 

Yup.

[Tooj 17]

Could you imagine Keegan or SBR being so conservative with him? Not a chance. They'd just tell him to go out there and strut his stuff and not to worry about how many yards he does.

[Guest CabayeAye]

He's a flair attacking midfielder/second striker. WTF would you expect him to track back?! Did Robert track back? Did Ginola track back? No. Shearer summed up why Torres is playing so badly on MOTD last night. It's because he's going too deep/wide. Ben Arfa and Ba need to stay up since Tiote, Jonas and Cabaye are more than capable of helping out our defence when under the cosh. In fact it was Ba coming too deep and the ineffectuallity of Best that meant we struggled yesterday until Ben Arfa came on.

[manc-mag 1]

The dilemma is though (and it is a real one) our play is so much about pressing the opposition now when not in possession. That's an undeniably good thing, the top teams do it as standard, it's about knowing what it's sposed to mean to play for the team and that has to become ingrained in the fabric of the club. That's how Pardew is squeezing the most out of not-always-spectacular players and he knows it fine well. I love Ben Arfa's talent but that's the obvious weakness to his 'game'. I don't think that will change much-that's not to say you get shut but it is a case for saying that he may have to be sacrificed in certain games/formations until the overall team strength permits for his diminished work rate. We're not serious contenders for the CL so the stakes aren't that massive this year in a sense anyway (in the league), which means it has to be fair to try games with and without him in the starting 11. In an ideal world I'd start him every time but if anyone knows he's not operating in an ideal footballing world it's Pardew.

 

We were expected to be relegated a year ago so as much as theres loads of areas we can still improve we do still have to try and retain an objective view of how the team is getting results.

[Park Life 70]

“I want to make something clear. I am nearly 100% fit and if I play then I will show more to the fans – and more to the club.

 

“I heard the fans singing my name before I came on. It feels really good.

 

“The game at Bolton was very nice for me and I am so happy to see us pick up three important points.

 

“Everything the team did at Bolton was brilliant.”

 

Ben Arfa converted Ryan Taylor’s left-wing cross just minutes after replacing Leon Best, and he was keen to dedicate the strike to the loyal United support.

 

He added: “I was very happy to see the ball hit the back of the net. The main thing for me was to see the fans reacting behind the goal.

 

“That was the most pleasing thing – it was a goal not just for me but them also.

 

“It was really comforting to see the fans applauding me at the end too.”

 

Ben Arfa joked the strike was his belated Christmas present to the fans who had kept faith in him throughout his injury and rehabilitation.

 

The French talisman said: “It was the perfect occasion to score and get my first goal of the season.

 

“I was surprised to see so many fans come all the way to Bolton for this game.”

 

Ben Arfa has been a man of few words, but wants to pick up where he left off at Bolton when the Magpies visit Anfield on Friday night.

 

Even after being informed that Newcastle’s woeful record at Liverpool in the Premier League stretches back to 1994, Ben Arfa said: “We feel we can travel there and get three points again. It is very possible.

 

Read More http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/newcastle-united/nufc-news/2011/12/27/hatem-ben-arfa-that-goal-is-for-the-fans-72703-30016023/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz1hjwsgO6F

[toonotl 2431]

But 'sacrificing' him in favour of Best is rediculous though surely in terms of workrate in defence. He closes down opponents just as much as Best does, if not more. Now, leaving Ben Arfa out in favour of a Gosling/Guthrie type (type not ability) to bolster the midfield would be fine (or at least could be defended on the basis of defensive ability) with two sitting and one getting forward but Best playing instead of Ben Arfa because of workrate is laughable.

 

For me, the reason that Best has started in place of Ben Arfa is because Pardew wants to lump it forward for some reason. I can't for the life of me fathom why since we have players who pass the ball well, with Cabaye being the obvious example, and we look a neat side when we keep the ball on the ground. Playing a passing game with Ben Arfa in the side would add to the effectiveness of this approach. However, if Pardew wants to by-pass the midfield then lumping it to Ba without someone in support is not an option. Hence Best plays over Ben Arfa.

 

For me Pardew's decisions to leave Ben Arfa out in favour of Best is purely tactical and has nothing to do with the workrate of Ben Arfa (at least on the pitch). That is proven by the fact that Best spends half of the time we are not in possession standing offside like the dimwitted moron that he is. So basically we should be playing a passing game, we look better when we do, and Ben Arfa should be an automatic chioce in that system. That is where Pardew is fucking up, so its a two fold fuckup rather than one. Scandinavia rejoice.

 

Further evidence of Ben Arfa's omission being tactical rather than workrate related is him being picked against Man City with the job of sitting slightly deeper and closing down the opposition between the centre circle and the edge of our box. If Pardew had concerns about Ben Arfa's workrate in defence that would have been the game to leave out Ben Arfa, against the best team in the division, not against teams like Swansea or Norwich, games where we should have more ball and defensive workrates are not so much of an issue when there is less defending to be done.

 

Just my opinion.

[toonotl 2431]

Something I picked up was is comment "He is a good technical player" with the emphasis being on technical. Almost made me think there was something about him he didnt like, another aspect of his game. Or maybe I was just trying to read into something that wasnt there,

 

Yeh I saw that, almost like there was a 'but' on the end of that statement. But I think I (and maybe you ) may be being too cynical.