Monkeys Fist 39274 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 d your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27125 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Polls carried out yesterday show that the the public rate controlling immigration more importantly than access to the single market. And that is exactly why this should not have been decided by a referendum. People are stupid. You're a living, breathing example of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's reasonable to assume that a good number of people who voted Leave did so thinking it couldn't have that much of an impact - closer to a symbolic "impetus for a policy shift" than a seismic change in the very fundamentals of the country and how its economy functions - because there's no way any prime minister would agree to put a nation's future on the line like that. Wonder what they're thinking now the reality of it all is gradually becoming clear. Cheers Dave. Best PM evah. The reality so far for most people's every day lives is very much BAU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4984 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Polls carried out yesterday show that the the public rate controlling immigration more importantly than access to the single market. We will get free access though. Why would we though? I understand your economic argument about the EU protecting jobs, but politically they'd have to be prepared to watch the whole project crumble around them if they gave us immigration controls alongside single market access wouldn't they? The whole project crumbling would do far more harm to their economies than Britain not trading with them. That said, you may be right about May. It is possible that this is all bluster to set out a firm stance ahead of the EU negotiations. I'm not sure they're going to buy it, but it is where you would look to start in a negotiation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 31114 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 It's almost like we haven't even began the process of leaving yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) Mass migration is a globalist project it is their preferred weapon. It's why the EU has tied free movement to free trade when there is no logical reason behind the two being linked. Free movement doesn't benefit free trade it benefits wage compression and Labour market discrepancies with reg to long enshrined European collective bargaining being eroded. To the untrained eye Libya might look like a disaster but it was a way of opening up African migration routes into Europe. Gaddaffi and the Italians had a deal in which he would hold back the hordes and in return get trade and other under the counter benefits. The globalists hate Europe with its rights, privileges, pensions and social justice. In many ways it is the last barrier to their antics. Europe must be broken and the EU is totally unaware that they are just one stop on a long train ride to oblivion. Edited October 4, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Why the fuck would the EU want to give us a better deal outside of the EU than we had inside the EU? Project fear. They would say that. The EU likes nothing better than trying to bully a country, particularly if referendums don't go their way. Free trade is the only logical outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27125 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Project fear. They would say that. The EU likes nothing better than trying to bully a country, particularly if referendums don't go their way. Free trade is the only logical outcome. So ignore all logic and evidence then? You fucking moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 31114 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Mass migration is a globalist project it is their preferred weapon. It's why the EU has tied free movement to free trade when there is no logical reason behind the two being linked. Free movement doesn't benefit free trade it benefits wage compression and Labour market discrepancies with reg to long enshrined European collective bargaining being eroded. Suits big business, which is what really matters to the people making policy. I think it'll be a soft Brexit dressed up to look like it's tough on immigration. May had a pretty terrible record as Home Secretary on the matter (going by the government's own targets) but she's somehow managed to model herself as the nation's saviour on this 'key issue'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 31114 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 So ignore all logic and evidence then? You fucking moron. BAU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Why would we though? I understand your economic argument about the EU protecting jobs, but politically they'd have to be prepared to watch the whole project crumble around them if they gave us immigration controls alongside single market access wouldn't they? The whole project crumbling would do far more harm to their economies than Britain not trading with them. That said, you may be right about May. It is possible that this is all bluster to set out a firm stance ahead of the EU negotiations. I'm not sure they're going to buy it, but it is where you would look to start in a negotiation. Of course this is where you start. Both sides setting out immovable positions. There will be some compromises and a deal will be done. Even at the worst case scenario we are talking about very low tarrifs on the majority of goods. I honestly believe common sense will prevail from the Germans and French. Let's not also forget the general travel of opinion on free movement. A lot more could change given forthcoming elections in Germany and France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) Suits big business, which is what really matters to the people making policy. I think it'll be a soft Brexit dressed up to look like it's tough on immigration. May had a pretty terrible record as Home Secretary on the matter (going by the government's own targets) but she's somehow managed to model herself as the nation's saviour on this 'key issue'. Yup. The EU Parliament is besieged daily by thousands of Lobbyists and special interest groups. The EU round table is basically blue chip CEO's writing EU trade policy. Yeah it will be a soft Brexit dressed up as hard. Personally think they will take the 7 year break against the A3 countries that Blair binned. Edited October 4, 2016 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20234 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 d your post. meesa fitting into 32" waist trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20234 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Gideon Rachman, writing in today's FT Theresa May has one great advantage as a politician. She looks serious and responsible. But appearances can be deceptive. If you examine how the UK prime minister is handling Brexit, a different sort of politician emerges. By announcing that she will start the formal negotiations for Britain to leave the EU by March 2017, the prime minister has walked into a trap. She has given away what little leverage Britain has in the negotiations — without receiving any of the assurances that she needs to achieve a successful outcome. The announcement of the decision about when the UK will trigger Article 50 — the process by which Britain gives formal notice that it intends to leave the EU — was made in a statesmanlike fashion. But the actual content of the decision is reckless and driven by politics, rather than Britain’s national interest. Once Mrs May triggers Article 50, she has precisely two years to negotiate a new deal with the EU. Senior civil servants have told the prime minister that it is highly unlikely that the UK will be able to negotiate both the terms of its divorce and a new trade deal with the EU within the two-year deadline. As a result, they warned the prime minister that she must have assurances on what an interim trade agreement with the EU would look like in the long period between the UK leaving the bloc and a definitive new deal being put into place. Mrs May has chosen to ignore this advice. In doing so, she has knowingly placed Britain at a massive disadvantage in the forthcoming negotiations. As soon as Britain triggers Article 50, the EU can simply run the clock down — knowing that the UK will be in an increasingly difficult situation, the longer the negotiations drag on without agreement. At the end of two years, Britain will be out of the EU — and would face tariffs on manufactured goods and the loss of “passporting” rights that allow financial services firms based in the City to do business across the bloc. The economic damage from this kind of “hard Brexit” would be severe, blowing a hole in the government finances as tax revenues from the City shrink, ushering in a new period of austerity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20234 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 The most ardent Brexiters claim that this is all scaremongering. Why, they ask, would the EU contemplate the restoration of tariffs when this could be damaging to its own economic interests? The Leavers can answer that question by looking in the mirror. It is clear that the main motivation of the pro-Brexit camp in Britain is political, not economic. And the same will be true of the EU side in the negotiations.In the British case, the political goal is to restore parliamentary sovereignty and to regain control of immigration. On the EU side, the goal will be to make sure that Brexit does not lead to the unravelling of a European project that has been built up over 60 years. That will mean making sure that the UK pays a clear and heavy price for leaving the EU. As a result, both sides will accept some economic damage rather than sacrifice their political goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 36184 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 [emoji38] skinny bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14185 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1703845213273550 (Just another opinion. Should probably take advice from Minister for Happiness McFerrin.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 20234 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1703845213273550 (Just another opinion. Should probably take advice from Minister for Happiness McFerrin.) great analysis. the only crumb of comfort in all of that is hammond's pledge to finally invest to grow the economy. Edited October 4, 2016 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4984 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Great piece. In particular the sections relating to the heavily watered down influence of the Treasury. That says it all. The thing is though, it's not like May is going to be able to turn around when we're struggling even more than ever to pay for luxuries and even basics and say 'well you voted for this'. She'll be held responsible for the outcome of people's living standards decreasing. Surely she would know this? If not, and if this comes to pass, then I think Corbyn has a shout... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18294 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Gloom's quoted analysis summarises it perfectly for me. I can't see anything other than an economic war, which we will be the biggest losers, by virtue we are very small compared with the combined 27 EU states. I mean ffs, dies anyone other than CT have confidence in the abilities of May, Fox, Davis, and Johnson to get through this? And to make matters worse, with no credible Westminster opposition (sorry Rayvin but that is true)? It's depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 18294 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Great piece. In particular the sections relating to the heavily watered down influence of the Treasury. That says it all. The thing is though, it's not like May is going to be able to turn around when we're struggling even more than ever to pay for luxuries and even basics and say 'well you voted for this'. She'll be held responsible for the outcome of people's living standards decreasing. Surely she would know this? If not, and if this comes to pass, then I think Corbyn has a shout... Pinning your Corbyn hopes on economic catastrophe! Hope it doesn't come to that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4005 Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 Gideon Rachman, writing in today's FT What a stupid article. Everyone knows the EU have refused to discuss anything prior to article 50 being triggered. How could she therefore know what any "interim" deal looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 36184 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 What a stupid article. Everyone knows the EU have refused to discuss anything prior to article 50 being triggered. How could she therefore know what any "interim" deal looks like.Well you seem pretty fucking confident that it's gonna be two thumbs up and Rule Britannia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4984 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Pinning your Corbyn hopes on economic catastrophe! Hope it doesn't come to that..... He'd get in under those circumstances though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Just woke up as I'm on nights. Has CT arranged for his sister to punch any of you in the face yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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