Politics

[Rayvin 4964]

Kezia Dugdale has resigned as Scottish Labour leader, which, given the Scottish Labour performance in the GE, is absolutely a good thing.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/29/kezia-dugdale-resigns-as-scottish-labour-party-leader

[NJS 4002]

I got the impression she was a bridge between all the Blairites who'd caused the disaster and them coming more in line with the party as is now (not the plp obviously). 

 

 

[Rayvin 4964]

Maybe she was, but she encouraged people to vote Tory in the GE (to keep out the SNP). That's unforgivable iyam.

[Alex 30758]

No worse than the SNP in 2015 tbh

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3278]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

No worse than the SNP in 2015 tbh

 

When did they do that.

[Alex 30758]

40 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

 

When did they do that.

They blatantly played along with the 'keep the Tories out at all costs' rhetoric knowing exactly how that would play out in England via the tabloid press, i.e. 'Red Ed' being a puppet of Sturgeon should there be a hung parliament. They did this because they thought a Tory government would suit them. Unfortunately for them it didn't work as there was still no great appetite for a second referendum because people had began to suspect their economic arguments were suspect to say the least. You could argue it was worse than what Labour did because it was duplicitous.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3278]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

They blatantly played along with the 'keep the Tories out at all costs' rhetoric knowing exactly how that would play out in England via the tabloid press, i.e. 'Red Ed' being a puppet of Sturgeon should there be a hung parliament. They did this because they thought a Tory government would suit them. Unfortunately for them it didn't work as there was still no great appetite for a second referendum because people had began to suspect their economic arguments were suspect to say the least. You could argue it was worse than what Labour did because it was duplicitous.

 

Well that's bollocks, what you're saying is they campaigned on a keep the tories out at all costs ticket but really wanted the tories in. With absolutely no evidence whatsoever you have decided this made them duplicitous, despite the fact the SNP also did that this election just gone and have said they will do it at every election.

[Alex 30758]

It worked in Scotland and (had the equally desirous and opposite effect) England. Doesn't really take a genius to work it out. Or maybe I'm just under selling myself. You're totally myopic when it comes to the SNP anyway so I wouldn't have expected you to agree.

[Meenzer 14136]

Maybe they're duplicitous at every election.

 

 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3278]

8 minutes ago, Alex said:

It worked in Scotland and (had the equally desirous and opposite effect) England. Doesn't really take a genius to work it out. Or maybe I'm just under selling myself. You're totally myopic when it comes to the SNP anyway so I wouldn't have expected you to agree.

 

And you're not?

[Alex 30758]

Correct.

[PaddockLad 14892]

Sturgeon tweeted something fairly gracious this morning about Dugdale and the subsequent replies from her followers (Twitter has always troubled me with the use of that word) had all the hallmarks of a cult. In that regard they remind me of UKIP.  Public comment to the outside world is controlled and mostly the same regardless of who is making it. 

 

Dugdale has been got at by momentum (another cult it would seem) and Scottish Labour will soon be in their sphere of influence. Think it will pan out similarly, this year's general election will be the high water mark for Corbyn, as 2015 was for SNP

Edited August 30, 2017 by PaddockLad

[Alex 30758]

Tend to think it was the perfect election result for Corbyn. He's more suited the adversarial role he's in now as leader of the opposition and can take the moral highground with impunity seeing as none of his policies are under the scrutiny of actual having to be put into practice yet he still has the credibilty of performing way ahead of expectations and removing a Conservative majority. Even with the way the press attacked him (or perhaps even because of that to a degree) and with the paucity of talent with the actual government I think his election 'success' has been slightly overrated. The Tories haven't exactly helped themselves since which has only served to further enhance Corbyn's reputation. I think he's been a positive for UK politics without a doubt but the cult like status you talk about bestowed by Momentum probably turns off as many, if not more, potential voters than it brings to Labour because many literally seem to think he can do no wrong. At least he's not a self-serving cunt like most of them

[Rayvin 4964]

10 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Sturgeon tweeted something fairly gracious this morning about Dugdale and the subsequent replies from her followers (Twitter has always troubled me with the use of that word) had all the hallmarks of a cult. In that regard they remind me of UKIP.  Public comment to the outside world is controlled and mostly the same regardless of who is making it. 

 

Dugdale has been got at by momentum (another cult it would seem) and Scottish Labour will soon be in their sphere of influence. Think it will pan out similarly, this year's general election will be the high water mark for Corbyn, as 2015 was for SNP

 

Depends on how Brexit goes. If Corbyn remains the only viable alternative when it all falls apart, he'll clean up.

 

I've seen a lot of people suggesting Momentum are cult like but I've not seen it personally. I think they're confusing them with a fringe group (progressives) that admittedly have some presence within that movement, but which aren't guiding it (thank fuck). I genuinely think Dugdale has gone because of the mess she made in the GE.

 

Can't comment on the SNP as I've not looked into them, but tribalism in politics is on the rise sadly. At the expense of rational pragmatism.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Rayvin

[Rayvin 4964]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Tend to think it was the perfect election result for Corbyn. He's more suited the adversarial role he's in now as leader of the opposition and can take the moral highground with impunity seeing as none of his policies are under the scrutiny of actual having to be put into practice yet he still has the credibilty of performing way ahead of expectations and removing a Conservative majority. Even with the way the press attacked him (or perhaps even because of that to a degree) and with the paucity of talent with the actual government I think his election 'success' has been slightly overrated. The Tories haven't exactly helped themselves since which has only served to further enhance Corbyn's reputation. I think he's been a positive for UK politics without a doubt but the cult like status you talk about bestowed by Momentum probably turns off as many, if not more, potential voters than it brings to Labour because many literally seem to think he can do no wrong. At least he's not a self-serving cunt like most of them

 

Ah apologies, we're talking about a personality cult? Again, with Corbyn, I've only seen right wingers and Blairite Labour voters talk about such a thing existing, but haven't seen any actual evidence of it myself. The guy is a hugely flawed politician on many levels but as you say, is a net positive in the political climate.

[Alex 30758]

9 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Ah apologies, we're talking about a personality cult? Again, with Corbyn, I've only seen right wingers and Blairite Labour voters talk about such a thing existing, but haven't seen any actual evidence of it myself. The guy is a hugely flawed politician on many levels but as you say, is a net positive in the political climate.

Alreet, Wolfy

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, Alex said:

Alreet, Wolfy

 

 

I'm all ears if there is any. I'm just saying that I've not seen it - and keep in mind, I watch all manner of right wing shite in a bid to understand issues from all sides. If such people (who are always slating Corbyn) aren't setting up a convincing case for a cult of personality around the guy, then I'm really not sure there is one. He's popular, but I would suggest that's because of what he represents.

[Gemmill 35456]

The footage of May saying "I'm not a quitter!" on Channel 4 news yesterday. That cunt is as weird as it gets. 

[ewerk 26793]

So the man third favourite to be the next PM doesn't believe any woman should be allowed an abortion or that gay people should be allowed to marry due to his religious beliefs?

 

That is the sort of shit that we criticise Islamic theocracies for yet an awful lot of people think he's simply an eccentric, jovial character.

[Kid Dynamite 6082]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

So the man third favourite to be the next PM doesn't believe any woman should be allowed an abortion or that gay people should be allowed to marry due to his religious beliefs?

 

That is the sort of shit that we criticise Islamic theocracies for yet an awful lot of people think he's simply an eccentric, jovial character.

 

And worst of all he's the spit of postman pat

[Dr Gloom 20136]

10 hours ago, ewerk said:

So the man third favourite to be the next PM doesn't believe any woman should be allowed an abortion or that gay people should be allowed to marry due to his religious beliefs?

 

That is the sort of shit that we criticise Islamic theocracies for yet an awful lot of people think he's simply an eccentric, jovial character.

 

He's a coward too, hiding his bigotry behind his religion

[Meenzer 14136]

The gay marriage thing I don't even mind so much, I get that it's a pretty new concept and not everyone's on board with it (fossil like Rees-Mogg or otherwise), but his position on abortion is just grim to hear expressed out loud.

[Rayvin 4964]

1 hour ago, Meenzer said:

The gay marriage thing I don't even mind so much, I get that it's a pretty new concept and not everyone's on board with it (fossil like Rees-Mogg or otherwise), but his position on abortion is just grim to hear expressed out loud.

 

He needs the abortion stance to put over the whole package though. He has to be full Catholic in order to seem genuine. Without it he'd just be picking and choosing his views.

 

It could be cowardly as Gloom says, or he could be committed to it. Who knows. What is clear is that he isn't fit to be PM.

[Meenzer 14136]

Well yes, Catholicism is grim too, I get that.

[Meenzer 14136]

Anyway, it's surprising how many people are only just cottoning on to what a sort he is. His name is Jacob Rees-Mogg ffs. How many more clues do they want?