Donald Trump

[Isegrim 10887]

1 hour ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

Some of us grew up during the cold war and the troubles, some during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the terrorist attacks linked to them like 7/7. So who here grew up in a safe world?

1990 to 2001

[Craig 8022]

20 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

He may (just may) have overstepped, MAGA were dead against getting involved. A pre-emptive strike against a foreign nation is not within Presidential powers and must be approved by Congress. I know the rules don't apply to this cunt but a lot were vehemently against this, we can but hope this time the rules may be observed and he could be in the shit.

 

It'll get worse for him again when US servicemen, and possibly civilians, start to die as I am sure they will.

He'll see it as collateral damage, no doubt.

Was speaking to someone over the weekend who thinks it's part of Trump's economic plan - to start a war to boost the economy he's trashing with some of his other batshit crazy ideas.

[RobinRobin 13228]

He just doesn't care what he wrecks to get what he wants. Even though what he wants changes with the wind. 🙁 

[PaddockLad 20187]

[Craig 8022]

12 hours ago, Renton said:

Iran are more dangerous to us, as in UK, EU, than Israel. Of course they are. They're allied with Russia, close to China and frankly our number2 enemy. Israel are our ally. That doesn't detract or excuse their atrocities, but it's true nonetheless.

I struggle to quantify it tbh. Yes, Israel are traditionally our ally, but under its current leadership, I don't trust them - but that doesn't mean I trust Iran any more than them. 

Israel are one of only 3 nations to possess nukes but not sign the NPT. 

[Rayvin 6683]

They're also led by someone with an active arrest warrant out from the ICC for crimes against humanity. Iran aren't.

[Monkeys Fist 47092]

4 hours ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

Some of us grew up during the cold war and the troubles, some during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the terrorist attacks linked to them like 7/7. So who here grew up in a safe world?

I grew up in Killy Towers. 
 

 

Top that, mofos! 

[Renton 24938]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

They're also led by someone with an active arrest warrant out from the ICC for crimes against humanity. Iran aren't.

 

A person who in theory can be removed in an election. A country which in principle is a democracy and part of the international rules based order. Now, these are under massive stress at the moment because elected officials like Trump and Netanyahu are in actual fact autocratic trying to break the system. But there is a chance of reversal here through democratic mechanisms.

What's happening with the US and Israel is very disturbing. But it doesn't change what Iran is. Hive me the option, I'd much rather live in Washington DC or Tel Aviv than Tehran. I suspect you would too.

[Rayvin 6683]

8 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

A person who in theory can be removed in an election. A country which in principle is a democracy and part of the international rules based order. Now, these are under massive stress at the moment because elected officials like Trump and Netanyahu are in actual fact autocratic trying to break the system. But there is a chance of reversal here through democratic mechanisms.

What's happening with the US and Israel is very disturbing. But it doesn't change what Iran is. Hive me the option, I'd much rather live in Washington DC or Tel Aviv than Tehran. I suspect you would too.

 

Tehran looks fairly developed to me tbh. I don't get the sense that Iran is a fundamentalist state at the citizen level. I mean I saw the pictures of it in the 50s before we fucked them over too, it looked fairly well developed. It should be the leading light of the whole region, it only isn't because of us.

 

Netanyahu is in his 6th term as Prime Minister, so what does that say about Israel's electorate? Do we want to be allied with people who consistently vote for a war criminal? I just can't pretend this is all ok man, I just can't.

 

I wouldn't be able to stay in Washington now anyway because of posts like this. They'd deport me.

[ewerk 34909]

12 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Tehran looks fairly developed to me tbh. I don't get the sense that Iran is a fundamentalist state at the citizen level. I mean I saw the pictures of it in the 50s before we fucked them over too, it looked fairly well developed. It should be the leading light of the whole region, it only isn't because of us.

 

The reason it isn't is because of the cunts running it. I get your point about how they came to power but they are an authoritarian regime with no allies in the middle east.

[Renton 24938]

9 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Tehran looks fairly developed to me tbh. I don't get the sense that Iran is a fundamentalist state at the citizen level. I mean I saw the pictures of it in the 50s before we fucked them over too, it looked fairly well developed. It should be the leading light of the whole region, it only isn't because of us.

 

Netanyahu is in his 6th term as Prime Minister, so what does that say about Israel's electorate? Do we want to be allied with people who consistently vote for a war criminal? I just can't pretend this is all ok man, I just can't.

 

I wouldn't be able to stay in Washington now anyway because of posts like this. They'd deport me.

 

Iran was an enlightened place before the islamic revolution. Now, not so much. Is that our fault or the Ayatollahs? I dunno.

 

You can go there with all the correct visas and paper work but good chance you're not coming back. Yes, the US are to some extent following the play book. I don't want to chance visiting there again any time soon. Honestly don't know anywhere near enough about Israeli politics to explain Netanyahu, I know Glooms the board expert on that. Doubt I'll ever go there either.

 

I still think European values are aspirational though and I include the UK in that, for now.

[Craig 8022]

Not sure I'd want to be in Tel Aviv tbh. 

[Dazzler 13092]

1 hour ago, Monkeys Fist said:

I grew up in Killy Towers. 
 

 

Top that, mofos! 

Elswick / Rye Hill

 

I saw things in cruddas park shops that Iraqis and Iranians wouldn’t wish on any American tbh.

[spongebob toonpants 4628]

44 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

A person who in theory can be removed in an election. A country which in principle is a democracy and part of the international rules based order. Now, these are under massive stress at the moment because elected officials like Trump and Netanyahu are in actual fact autocratic trying to break the system. But there is a chance of reversal here through democratic mechanisms.

What's happening with the US and Israel is very disturbing. But it doesn't change what Iran is. Hive me the option, I'd much rather live in Washington DC or Tel Aviv than Tehran. I suspect you would too.

Iran was a fully functioning democracy before the CI A and the UK staged a couple because the democratically elected government voted to renationalise the oil fields that the UK and the US were exploiting.

They installed a puppet monarch which lead inevitably to revolution

 

It always comes down to oil in the end

[Craig 8022]

Aged well.

 

 

[aimaad22 5098]

8 hours ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

Some of us grew up during the cold war and the troubles, some during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the terrorist attacks linked to them like 7/7. So who here grew up in a safe world?

 

I was speaking relatively. Other than Ukraine and the Middle East, Pakistan and India were flying hundreds of planes at each other about a month ago and who knows how long till China decides to test out it's capabilities on Taiwan. 

 

For the most part we've seen proxy wars, insurgencies and terrorism in the last few decades. The US and allies bombing countries that had little ability to defend themselves. 

 

We've now got far right nut jobs in charge across the world and whatever semblance of moral, stable US leadership/hegemony is evaporating fast. The thinking clear across so many recent incidents and escalations now is if you want something and think you can get if off the smaller/weaker guy, do it. To hell with international law, UN charters etc. 

[Renton 24938]

2 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

 

I was speaking relatively. Other than Ukraine and the Middle East, Pakistan and India were flying hundreds of planes at each other about a month ago and who knows how long till China decides to test out it's capabilities on Taiwan. 

 

For the most part we've seen proxy wars, insurgencies and terrorism in the last few decades. The US and allies bombing countries that had little ability to defend themselves. 

 

We've now got far right nut jobs in charge across the world and whatever semblance of moral, stable US leadership/hegemony is evaporating fast. The thinking clear across so many recent incidents and escalations now is if you want something and think you can get if off the smaller/weaker guy, do it. To hell with international law, UN charters etc. 

 

Completely agree, this is the true damage caused by the US's descent into Trumpism. The rules based order wasn't always effective and I can complete accept to many it was a sham. But now it's gone it's going to be survival of the fittest out there is we can't dial it in. I think for most people this is by far the most dangerous age we've lived in post ww2.

 

You knew where you were with the soviet union and MAD back in the day. We're in a much more unstable place now with Putin, Trump, the rise of China, Taiwan, carnage in the Middle.Eat, India, Pakistan etc. And at the same time our own stature has been degraded.

[Tom 14590]

Iran firing basic missiles at empty US bases in Qatar.

 

 Another oil war. Great.

[Craig 8022]

15 minutes ago, Tom said:

Iran firing basic missiles at empty US bases in Qatar.

 

 Another oil war. Great.

Just the basic ones?
 

They’re expecting to fire at US bases in UAE too.

 

Not going to end well for anyone, this.

[Tom 14590]

Ballistic sorry  

 

 

[Dr Gloom 24588]

1 hour ago, aimaad22 said:

 

I was speaking relatively. Other than Ukraine and the Middle East, Pakistan and India were flying hundreds of planes at each other about a month ago and who knows how long till China decides to test out it's capabilities on Taiwan. 

 

For the most part we've seen proxy wars, insurgencies and terrorism in the last few decades. The US and allies bombing countries that had little ability to defend themselves. 

 

We've now got far right nut jobs in charge across the world and whatever semblance of moral, stable US leadership/hegemony is evaporating fast. The thinking clear across so many recent incidents and escalations now is if you want something and think you can get if off the smaller/weaker guy, do it. To hell with international law, UN charters etc. 

 

this. The international rules-based order has collapsed. The UN no longer serves any purpose, nor seemingly does the US constitution. 

[Rayvin 6683]

Iran is indicating that it has returned fire with an equal number of missiles to the US attack they suffered, and that they chose targets out of the way of civilian areas, and indeed warned the bases of the strikes. Nice to see at least one of these nations acting with some restraint. Shame there aren't more adults in the room though - Trump will hit them either way.

[Dr Gloom 24588]

4 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Iran was an enlightened place before the islamic revolution. Now, not so much. Is that our fault or the Ayatollahs? I dunno.

 

You can go there with all the correct visas and paper work but good chance you're not coming back. Yes, the US are to some extent following the play book. I don't want to chance visiting there again any time soon. Honestly don't know anywhere near enough about Israeli politics to explain Netanyahu, I know Glooms the board expert on that. Doubt I'll ever go there either.

 

I still think European values are aspirational though and I include the UK in that, for now.

Israel has played a terrible hand in this. They’re the aggressor in this case. Netanyahu only managed to cling to power, after several elections failed to produce a governing majority., by forming a coalition of all the worst fringe politicians in the country. Imagine if we were governed by Reform and the English Defence League. It’s that bad. Worse actually because he’s got the religious fundamentalists propping him up too - and they really do believe in a one state solution, ethnic cleansing in other words. 
 

These nutters do not speak for the majority of Israelis, just as the Iranian regime don’t speak for all Iranians. My family in Israel are going through hell. My cousin recently had to undergo chemotherapy in an air raid shelter. 

[Rayvin 6683]

8 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Israel has played a terrible hand in this. They’re the aggressor in this case. Netanyahu only managed to cling to power, after several elections failed to produce a governing majority., by forming a coalition of all the worst fringe politicians in the country. Imagine if we were governed by Reform and the English Defence League. It’s that bad. Worse actually because he’s got the religious fundamentalists propping him up too - and they really do believe in a one state solution, ethnic cleansing in other words. 
 

These nutters do not speak for the majority of Israelis, just as the Iranian regime don’t speak for all Iranians. My family in Israel are going through hell. My cousin recently had to undergo chemotherapy in an air raid shelter. 

 

I really hope your family are going to be ok man - for what it's worth I don't think there's really any chance of serious casualties on the Israeli side, I was reading that the Iranian long range capabilities have been largely knocked out now - besides which they don't seem to be going for civilian targets. Hopefully everyone backs down since it looks like America achieved what they wanted. It's more the West I'm concerned about at this point, we've shown time and time again how untrustworthy and cynical we are - many lives in Trump's hands.

[wykikitoon 24337]

Hasn't iran qualified for the WC in USA next year?