Vladimir Putin and Russia

[Rayvin 4964]

24 minutes ago, scoobos said:

I think they'll surrender pretty quickly - I hope so, as resistance truly is futile at this point.

I feel sick, if only cos I watch too much news and have felt since November last year that I'm in that BBC TV programme - Threads , with the build up on the internet, but nothing on our news. Then listening to Biden sabre rattle when Putin's showed his hand.

2 months ago, I remember reading that the only reason the invasion hasn't started is because the tanks need colder weather and cannot cross the mud.

Scares me that we think we can do anything when we've got 60,000 troops total and decided that Tanks are not part of "modern warfare" . 

If we start seeing DDOS attacks against our financial systems, then we better keep our fingers crossed.

 

Ukraine's government is arming civilians, which makes me think we're going to see resistance once the government collapses.

 

Putin doesn't give a shit anymore IMO, he's going to kill whoever he has to in order to conquer and subjugate them.

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, PaddockLad said:

 

So we've to be happy if he stops at the border of the baltic stares, Poland & Romania?  That's just more of the same tbh.  Sorry but he needs to be physically stopped.  NATO need to mobilise. UK service men and women will die. Hes got to be stopped. We also need to make plans to assassinate him.  We have to provoke/manipulate someone in his inner circle to do it. 

 

I broadly agree with this but I don't see it happening until he takes another step. I don't know why but Europe always seems to need to throw one country to the dogs before it'll actually do anything about it.

[Monkeys Fist 38835]

2 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

So we've to be happy if he stops at the border of the baltic stares, Poland & Romania?  That's just more of the same tbh.  Sorry but he needs to be physically stopped.  NATO need to mobilise. UK service men and women will die. Hes got to be stopped. We also need to make plans to assassinate him.  We have to provoke/manipulate someone in his inner circle to do it. 

I said earlier in this thread- Novichok the fucker, then deny all knowledge. 
 

You could put the Novichok on the tip of a bunker buster, just for good measure. 

[ewerk 26478]

You have to assume now that this aren't the actions of a rational actor but someone who is out to write their legacy.

[PaddockLad 14638]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

You have to assume now that this aren't the actions of a rational actor but someone who is out to write their legacy.

 

Theyre the actions of a high functioning psychopath who knows precisely what he's doing iyam. Think you're right about the legacy though,  he's 72(?) he needs to get moving if he's going to dominate central Europe...

[Renton 17828]

6 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

So we've to be happy if he stops at the border of the baltic stares, Poland & Romania?  That's just more of the same tbh.  Sorry but he needs to be physically stopped.  NATO need to mobilise. UK service men and women will die. Hes got to be stopped. We also need to make plans to assassinate him.  We have to provoke/manipulate someone in his inner circle to do it. 

 

No we're not happy but from my pov that is preferable to direct combat between Russia and NATO which could easily escalate to Armageddon. There's a lot of unknowns here as well. Just how strong is the Russian military, not in numbers, but in terms of technology. The US's defence budget has been in excess of 50 times that of Russia's for 3 decades now. Is it unfeasible that Ukraine armed with these gadgets could defeat the Russian bear? Always easier to defend than attack as well. Ukraine is a fucking huge country, no way can Putin control it forever given it's not liberation, it's occupation. There seems to be an assumption he is some kind of genius and has won already. I'm not sure that is true. 

[wykikitoon 16734]

3 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Theyre the actions of a high functioning psychopath who knows precisely what he's doing iyam. Think you're right about the legacy though,  he's 72(?) he needs to get moving if he's going to dominate central Europe...

He's 70 this year.  Maybe he's marking it with this.

[wykikitoon 16734]

Hmmm, it's also 100 years since the founding of the USSR

 

[Christmas Tree 3997]

If only Bond wasn’t on holiday  

Edited February 24, 2022 by Christmas Tree

[Rayvin 4964]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

No we're not happy but from my pov that is preferable to direct combat between Russia and NATO which could easily escalate to Armageddon. There's a lot of unknowns here as well. Just how strong is the Russian military, not in numbers, but in terms of technology. The US's defence budget has been in excess of 50 times that of Russia's for 3 decades now. Is it unfeasible that Ukraine armed with these gadgets could defeat the Russian bear? Always easier to defend than attack as well. Ukraine is a fucking huge country, no way can Putin control it forever given it's not liberation, it's occupation. There seems to be an assumption he is some kind of genius and has won already. I'm not sure that is true. 

 

He must be very, very confident - he's put everything on this. If he doesn't succeed then I'm not even sure he'd be able to hang onto power. Russia would be humiliated across the world. He must be basically certain that he's going to win.

 

They'll take out airbases and infrastructure and limit Ukraine's response capabilities to ground based approaches with limited manoeuvrability and options for co-ordination. If Ukraine ever got any sort of a foothold, IMO, he'll start hitting civilian targets. He may well already be doing that.

 

This is the man who bought and paid for both Brexit and Trump, who has been destabilising our civilisation for decades. Yes, we created him. Yes, we should have approached this differently, and yes, this is partially our fault - but in the end, he's the incel out there with a gun who has started shooting. We need to act.

[Renton 17828]

Is Bond dead? FFS, spoilers.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Renton

[PaddockLad 14638]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

No we're not happy but from my pov that is preferable to direct combat between Russia and NATO which could easily escalate to Armageddon. There's a lot of unknowns here as well. Just how strong is the Russian military, not in numbers, but in terms of technology. The US's defence budget has been in excess of 50 times that of Russia's for 3 decades now. Is it unfeasible that Ukraine armed with these gadgets could defeat the Russian bear? Always easier to defend than attack as well. Ukraine is a fucking huge country, no way can Putin control it forever given it's not liberation, it's occupation. There seems to be an assumption he is some kind of genius and has won already. I'm not sure that is true. 

 

 

[Renton 17828]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

We need to act.

 

Okay, how? You always seem vague on this? 

[Rayvin 4964]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Okay, how? You always seem vague on this? 

 

I'm with PL, I said so further up the page. He needs to be physically stopped.

[Rayvin 4964]

As crazy as it sounds at first reading (sorry PL ) I actually do think bumping him off would have the desired effect. No way any of his cronies would continue this without him.

 

I don't think we live in a world where that can happen, but it wouldn't be a bad option.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'm with PL, I said so further up the page. He needs to be physically stopped.

The blokes a full on nutter with 8,000 nukes. No thanks.

[PaddockLad 14638]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'm with PL, I said so further up the page. He needs to be physically stopped.

 

He literally threatens the whole of Europe. UK based Oligarchs should be in fuckin Belmarsh by lunchtime. We've got to properly hurt all powerful Russian assets/ gangsters. Make the consequences of their actions obscene. I'd put Farage and Bankes in there too, they're a national security risk. As I said earlier this week, declare war/state of emergency and intern the fuckin traitors. 

[Renton 17828]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I'm with PL, I said so further up the page. He needs to be physically stopped.

 

That's too vague. A ground counter-attack? Air war? What? If Putin starts losing AND it involves the US and NATO, then how do you think he will react? 

[Rayvin 4964]

Just now, Christmas Tree said:

The blokes a full on nutter with 8,000 nukes. No thanks.

 

You have a line in the sand, presumably, over which you would determine that you would have the UK fight him. Ukraine isn't your line, that's fair enough - but your argument doesn't hold unless you have no line at all.

 

"We can let him have this one, it's not that bad" is a thin end of the wedge style approach that will lead to a cascading waterfall of landgrabs by 'strong men' the world over.

 

And also, I really don't see Putin firing nukes over a war that he himself is the aggressor in. If we were trying to take over Russia, sure. But this isn't what that is.

[Renton 17828]

Just now, PaddockLad said:

 

He literally threatens the whole of Europe. UK based Oligarchs should be in fuckin Belmarsh by lunchtime. We've got to properly hurt all powerful Russian assets/ gangsters. Make the consequences of their actions obscene. I'd put Farage and Bankes in there too, they're a national security risk. As I said earlier this week, declare war/state of emergency and intern the fuckin traitors. 

 

All for this. But the tories are up their nuts in Roubles so will never happen. Yet again we have the worst possible government at the worst possible time. 

[Renton 17828]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

You have a line in the sand, presumably, over which you would determine that you would have the UK fight him. Ukraine isn't your line, that's fair enough - but your argument doesn't hold unless you have no line at all.

 

"We can let him have this one, it's not that bad" is a thin end of the wedge style approach that will lead to a cascading waterfall of landgrabs by 'strong men' the world over.

 

And also, I really don't see Putin firing nukes over a war that he himself is the aggressor in. If we were trying to take over Russia, sure. But this isn't what that is.

 

Tbf the line was blurred in Ukraine already which facilitated this situation somewhat. The line against NATO countries is crystal clear. I would be sending in NATO troops now to Poland, the Baltic nations, and the Balkan nations, if we are  not already doing so. 

[Rayvin 4964]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

That's too vague. A ground counter-attack? Air war? What? If Putin starts losing AND it involves the US and NATO, then how do you think he will react? 

A proportionate military response that ensures no quick victory in the Ukraine for Russia while also making very clear that there is no intent to 'chase' Russia back to Moscow. Using whatever means that would entail, I'm not qualified enough to say. If Putin starts losing, he'll lose his grip on power. I still do not believe that Russia will fire nukes over their own war of aggression, even if they fail.

[PaddockLad 14638]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

That's too vague. A ground counter-attack? Air war? What? If Putin starts losing AND it involves the US and NATO, then how do you think he will react? 

 

It's all hugely risky. MAD has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years. We're in a new era now . NATO should besiege Kallinigrad.  And I'd send out our subs into the Black Sea (they're already there iyam) to take out his positions round Odessa. It's the only thing he'll understand...

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3211]

The Ukraine will turn into Afghanistan for Russia

[Rayvin 4964]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

All for this. But the tories are up their nuts in Roubles so will never happen. Yet again we have the worst possible government at the worst possible time. 

 

This is of course Johnson's Churchill moment as someone else said. I can't wait to see what he's made of.

 

Maybe we should send him in to quote pig latin and blather on at Putin until the latter surrenders just to spare his own sanity.