2017 GE 1

[Alex 31138]

Corbyn's going to piss this, even CT is on side.

[Christmas Tree 4005]

Alas, it's all starting to unravel today with the official launch. Beginning to feel as though they've just sat round a table getting pissed and throwing all sorts of goodies into the middle. Free everything for everyone.

 

I feel a bit sad about it as I was hoping it was all going to come together. They should have either put less goodies in or gone stronger on ways of raising tax.

 

I still had serious doubts about Corbyn and his team, but I would have put that to one side knowing the good old civil service would have sorted out the implementation.

 

I also had serious doubts about how they would do on Brexit but was prepared to take that gamble in return for the promised land.

 

But already the IFS are casting doubts on the ability of the tax plans to cover their spending plans and all the nationalisation are not in the costings and seem to have been given little thought of how they would be run.

 

That all said, its early hours and I'll wait and see what other so called respected opinions materialise in the next few days.

 

Its hard to argue with a lot of what they want to do, but as always, it comes down to having the nouse to pay for it.

 

Close, but no cigar.

[Alex 31138]

[ewerk 27147]

24 minutes ago, Alex said:

 

 

[NJS 4043]

They could just treble the national debt like the tories have. 

[Alex 31138]

All down to Labour and benefit cheats

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

 

 

How so?

 

I don't particularly enjoy it but the money is alright, there'd be no point in staying if the gap to minimum wage was so small. Also those people earning over minimum wage now but less than £10 would get a pay rise.. to minimum wage. A bit shit really

[Andrew 4305]

8 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

I don't particularly enjoy it but the money is alright, there'd be no point in staying if the gap to minimum wage was so small. Also those people earning over minimum wage now but less than £10 would get a pay rise.. to minimum wage. A bit shit really

 

Is that not an incentive to go and do something you actually want to then?

[Christmas Tree 4005]

17 minutes ago, NJS said:

They could just treble the national debt like the tories have. 

 

I don't profess to be an expert on this but I think it's fairly accepted that national debt was at around 1 trillion in 2010/11 when the coalition took over and is around 1.6 now ?? 

 

It started to soar in 2008 when "there was no money left".

 

I think it would be ok if Labour came out and said that's what they wanted to do and people knew where it stood. They would have been better leaving some stuff out and getting the sums to add up.

 

Im even leaving the nationalisation stuff out, which is a whole headfuck just on its own.

 

 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Perhaps, but it's convenient here. I'd prefer the value to not be sucked from it

[adios 717]

Wages closer to the minimum wage will probably be most positively affected by the increase in the medium term.

 

I have done no research on this topic.

[Andrew 4305]

6 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Perhaps, but it's convenient here. I'd prefer the value to not be sucked from it

 

Sounds like losing your incentive to be there might be better for you tbh

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

4 minutes ago, Andrew said:

 

Sounds like losing your incentive to be there might be better for you tbh

 

Idealistically but not realistically. It'll hurt people in my wage bracket, working class. The so called elites won't care

[Christmas Tree 4005]

3 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Idealistically but not realistically. It'll hurt people in my wage bracket, working class. The so called elites won't care

 

Not sure how it will hurt you. Best case scenario, your wage group will get a boost to keep the distinction. Worst case, worse off people get a boost on their lower wages. How would that effect you financially?

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I'd go from an average income working class earner to a low income earner. They wouldn't be giving me a 3 quid pay rise

[Andrew 4305]

But what effect would that actually have on you?

 

Is it thought that the rise in minimum wage would co-incide with an equal rise in costs across the board? (genuine question btw)

[Kid Dynamite 6151]

It beggars belief that we have one party offering to tax the rich marginally more and the ultra rich a little bit more than that to fix the NHS, public services, railways, environment, benefits system etc. 

 

Yet because the papers say Corbyn is a 'lefty loony' we are voting for the party that wants to profit off people's ill health and offer tax cuts to billionaires.

 

Even if his sums are a bit off and he only manages 50% of what he's promised he's still going to be doing better than the current shit show in power. 

 

Apple, Starbucks, Amazon etc. Could fund the lot of it if they paid the same level of tax as every other shop on the high street. Apple has $250,000,000,000 in the bank ffs 

 

[Kid Dynamite 6151]

4 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I'd go from an average income working class earner to a low income earner. They wouldn't be giving me a 3 quid pay rise

 

If you make £12ph now and then £12ph next year you are no worse off genius 

[adios 717]

Inflation, genius.

[Kid Dynamite 6151]

7 minutes ago, adios said:

Inflation, genius.

 

In 12months you're not going to notice the difference.

 

the cap on nurses for 7 years on the other hand ...

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

7 minutes ago, Andrew said:

But what effect would that actually have on you?

 

Is it thought that the rise in minimum wage would co-incide with an equal rise in costs across the board? (genuine question btw)

 

Yep my comparative spending power would be reduced. And i started working here on a lower wage and worked hard to get a better income. Everyone getting a payrise to £10 below me undoes all of that, and puts me back to near minimum wage. In an automotive industry cautious about brexit they won't be giving equivilent pay rises to everybody

[Renton 18326]

Raising minimum wage that much at once would be problematic imo. O sympathise with GQ's point, it will mean hospital porters getting paid as much as people in hospital with much more responsibility, for instance. Can't see how it won't stoke inflation as well. 

And I sound like a right Tory here I appreciate, but a lot of small companies are going to have to cut hours or reduce staff to take the hit. Can imagine restaurants and hotels having to significantly increase costs. 

 

Minimum wage should go up by at least inflation every year though. And the 1% cap on public sector pay is coming up to a decade soon. Needs to end. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

 

16 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

 

If you make £12ph now and then £12ph next year you are no worse off genius 

 

It's not about just the short term cockface. It would take me from being an average earner to a below average earner. If you can't see that as a negative then i can't help 

[Christmas Tree 4005]

18 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

It beggars belief that we have one party offering to tax the rich marginally more and the ultra rich a little bit more than that to fix the NHS, public services, railways, environment, benefits system etc. 

 

Yet because the papers say Corbyn is a 'lefty loony' we are voting for the party that wants to profit off people's ill health and offer tax cuts to billionaires.

 

Even if his sums are a bit off and he only manages 50% of what he's promised he's still going to be doing better than the current shit show in power. 

 

Apple, Starbucks, Amazon etc. Could fund the lot of it if they paid the same level of tax as every other shop on the high street. Apple has $250,000,000,000 in the bank ffs 

 

 

The issue a lot of people have (not just because of 2007), is that they don't trust Labour on running the economy.

 

personally I think this is one of the best Labour offerings in years, but because they've chucked so much in the pot / and are struggling to cost it, it leaves people thinking it's pie in the sky.

 

understandable to a degree what they've done given how far behind in the polls they were. However I think if they'd had a more polished first team and had got the sums right, the country would have gone for it.

 

[adios 717]

For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise. And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive. So when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first. And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day. But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen...