Rayvin 4964 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 13 minutes ago, David Kelly said: May as well try and learn something from the stick we're getting. These public beheadings that are going on in Saudi. Who are they beheading? Is it opposers of the state or is it murders and rapists and other criminals? Also what is their beef with Yeman that's resulting in the bombings? Honestly they're probably beheading political opponents as much as normal criminals. Treason is in their list of capital punishments, along with Blasphemy and homosexuality. So realistically, there's plenty in there that we should object to. And the Yemen state of affairs is also highly objectionable. Not up there with Western atrocities, but still highly dismal. But they're going to keep doing that whether we support the club or not. And they're getting their legitimacy from the PL, not us. So if this is our line in the sand, as a society (it isn't, not even close) then fans of every club in the PL should be dropping support of their team. I do struggle with this, honestly, but the hypocrisy from every other quarter is what's actually keeping me in it. We are not the gatekeepers of morality for football. Either the whole structure backs away from football to 'defeat' this, or none of us do. It's not just on us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38763 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 minute ago, David Kelly said: Also appears that for one reason or another that they are backing out of Yemam which is surely a good thing. That’s fighting talk. 😡 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Monkeys Fist said: That’s fighting talk. 😡 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34462 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Nobody backs out of Yemam. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Honestly they're probably beheading political opponents as much as normal criminals. Treason is in their list of capital punishments, along with Blasphemy and homosexuality. So realistically, there's plenty in there that we should object to. And the Yemen state of affairs is also highly objectionable. Not up there with Western atrocities, but still highly dismal. But they're going to keep doing that whether we support the club or not. And they're getting their legitimacy from the PL, not us. So if this is our line in the sand, as a society (it isn't, not even close) then fans of every club in the PL should be dropping support of their team. I do struggle with this, honestly, but the hypocrisy from every other quarter is what's actually keeping me in it. We are not the gatekeepers of morality for football. Either the whole structure backs away from football to 'defeat' this, or none of us do. It's not just on us. I stand by my original thought that supporting our team and wanting it to do well whether it's owned by the Saudi's, Newcastle Council or Ant & Dec, is not something we should be apologising for. But I do think it's important to use this to learn more and I do find it distasteful when I see other supporters wearing Arab get up or being draped in Saudi flags. I've no doubt City supporters did the same when they were bought by the UAE but that's not an excuse. But then again I'm not going to have a go at those who do it as all it really shows is their lack of education in that (and probably many other) areas. If we don't have any direction from our leaders on this then what hope does your average man in the street have. I'd just much rather those in press who against this whole deal actually tried to educate people on the whole than make snide comments against a bunch of supporters who want nothing more than to enjoy going to the match. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 7 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Honestly they're probably beheading political opponents as much as normal criminals. Treason is in their list of capital punishments, along with Blasphemy and homosexuality. So realistically, there's plenty in there that we should object to. And the Yemen state of affairs is also highly objectionable. Not up there with Western atrocities, but still highly dismal. But they're going to keep doing that whether we support the club or not. And they're getting their legitimacy from the PL, not us. So if this is our line in the sand, as a society (it isn't, not even close) then fans of every club in the PL should be dropping support of their team. I do struggle with this, honestly, but the hypocrisy from every other quarter is what's actually keeping me in it. We are not the gatekeepers of morality for football. Either the whole structure backs away from football to 'defeat' this, or none of us do. It's not just on us. how do you figure? school yourself with a little background reading that said, the atrocities in yemen are facilitated by the west. we sold them the weapons so our hands are hardly clean here either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: how do you figure? school yourself with a little background reading that said, the atrocities in yemen are facilitated by the west. we sold them the weapons so our hands are hardly clean here either I was basing it on death counts from the various wars we've waged - I do appreciate that there's some nuance to it but 450k people died for an illegal war in Iraq and I don't think the Saudis are up to that kind of tally yet in Yemen. I mean it's not a competition and I'm not really intending this as whataboutery, but let's not pretend that we aren't run by absolute psychopaths as well. The US killed 7 children in a "righteous" (leading US general quoted as saying) airstrike in Kabul a month ago if you want a particularly disgusting anecdote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I was basing it on death counts from the various wars we've waged - I do appreciate that there's some nuance to it but 450k people died for an illegal war in Iraq and I don't think the Saudis are up to that kind of tally yet in Yemen. I mean it's not a competition and I'm not really intending this as whataboutery, but let's not pretend that we aren't run by absolute psychopaths as well. The US killed 7 children in a "righteous" (leading US general quoted as saying) airstrike in Kabul a month ago if you want a particularly disgusting anecdote. not defending that either but i think we can say this is the same ball park. yes, the direct casualties are in the tens rather than hundreds of thousands, but the picture there is grim: indiscriminate attacks on civilians, landmines, the blocking of humanitarian access, torture, the destruction of the economy and subsequent starvation Edited October 12, 2021 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 i don't think we should be selling the saudis weapons personally but we need their oil and they're our key partner in the region so we turn the other way, just as the PL was always ultimately going to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34462 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 I love a good atrocity-off. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: not defending that either but i think we can say this is the same ball park. yes, the direct casualties are in the tens rather than hundreds of thousands, but the picture there is grim: indiscriminate attacks on civilians, landmines, the blocking of humanitarian access, starvation, torture, the destruction of the economy and subsequent starvation Absolutely, it's shameful and horrific. I just don't think they're trailblazers in the atrocity stakes. Although I suppose it's not like many other governments own football teams. For what it's worth, if I thought that me not supporting Newcastle could end any of that, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But it won't. Maybe the whole league turning off it would. But probably not. Maybe the Western world refusing to deal with them? Doubtful, they'd just go to the Russians. We probably actually stand more chance of reining them in by engaging with them. EDIT - Also fwiw, you'll never catch me (or anyone on here I'd imagine) parading around outside SJP in a Saudi Flag. And should I ever have the opporunity to meet any of them, I'd be happy telling them what I thought about them (in the relative safety of Britain, not in Saudi). So I'm not going to be cheerleading this pack of bastards who have bought the club. I just also feel that there's a lot of the pot calling the kettle black going on in this furore. Edited October 12, 2021 by Rayvin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34462 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 (edited) I'd love to meet the bloke who found out that him stopping supporting Newcastle would end human rights atrocities in Saudi...... and he just couldn't bring himself to do it. "But they're MY TEAM! What else am I gonna do on Saturday?!" Would make a great sitcom. Ultimate Superfan. Edited October 12, 2021 by Gemmill 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 3659 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 At least the best thread on the forum has turned into another pile of politics wank 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I love a good atrocity-off. not really the forum for this top tier banter is it? sorry everyone 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13847 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 “If yeee watch that game on hesgoal another journo dies” “ASM is starting man” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38763 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 I blame the Arabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 so what does everyone make of how the trans debate is destroying academia? just kidding 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38763 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: so what does everyone make of how the trans debate is destroying academia? just kidding They’ve (rightly) held the top spot for ages, but the Vivaro and T5 Transporter are giving it a run for its money. Not sure why you're asking about nuts at the end though? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: They’ve (rightly) held the top spot for ages, but the Vivaro and T5 Transporter are giving it a run for its money. Not sure why you're asking about nuts at the end though? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Aye, my bad. Sometimes just need to have these more challenging discussions to make peace with things myself but no need to put anyone else through the ringer. I'll quieten down generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Aye, my bad. Sometimes just need to have these more challenging discussions to make peace with things myself but no need to put anyone else through the ringer. I'll quieten down generally. yeah, keep it down to a dull roar. because if you don't you'll wish you were a heretic convicted of apostasy in saudi arabia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19824 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 what have i just read btw? https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/lucien-favres-first-seasons-newcastle-21825992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12457 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: what have i just read btw? https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/lucien-favres-first-seasons-newcastle-21825992 How bad is the Chronicle website btw, my phone just about blew up with the amount of shite popping up all over the screen, even when trying to read the article it would expand with some random survey question. Shockingly shit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34462 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Howay said: How bad is the Chronicle website btw, my phone just about blew up with the amount of shite popping up all over the screen, even when trying to read the article it would expand with some random survey question. Shockingly shit. It's unreal. All local newspapers are like this now. I think Internet ads are the only thing keeping them afloat. Lads, do you want me to read your fucking articles or not. If I want to be bombarded by this many popups I'll click on one of those "Local women want to have sex with YOU" ads. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30409 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Howay said: How bad is the Chronicle website btw, my phone just about blew up with the amount of shite popping up all over the screen, even when trying to read the article it would expand with some random survey question. Shockingly shit. Aye. It’s absolutely horrific 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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