Eddie and Mad Dog's Apathetic Parisian Party Poopers v Turn It Up, Bring The Moyes (Yo, I Don't Understand Why West Ham's Playin' [With Bubbles])

[wykikitoon 17053]

Trippier now with same assists as Maddison.  That one yesterday by him was fucking lush.

[Dazzler 5826]

1 hour ago, wykikitoon said:

Trippier now with same assists as Maddison.  That one yesterday by him was fucking lush.

 

Aye it was. The one against Sheffield that he clipped first time for Wilson was a thing of beauty as well.

[The Fish 9231]

3 hours ago, Dazzler said:

 

I feel great tbf. I've come to accept and appreciate my usually horrendously bad takes.

 

Surely though, if a more attacking/creative midfielder can be come an integral part of Moysey ball then it goes against your argument in favour of Rice - because why couldn't Rice adapt to become more box to box and contribute more if Paqueta can? Rice had way longer to adapt to Moyes too.

 

IMO Rice is limited. He's excellent at defending from midfield, he's not as great at anything else.

 

An attacking/creative player has been turned into a less creative, less attacking player. Because of Moyesball. 

 

It's more difficult to turn a technically good, defensively excellent, leader, into a fancydan flair boy. Getting an already industrious attacker to be more industrious is child's play.

[Dazzler 5826]

4 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

An attacking/creative player has been turned into a less creative, less attacking player. Because of Moyesball. 

 

It's more difficult to turn a technically good, defensively excellent, leader, into a fancydan flair boy. Getting an already industrious attacker to be more industrious is child's play.

 

No need to turn him into a player with flair, but coaching him to carry the ball forward and contribute offensively is not that big an big ask. Especially, if he's that good. No one is expecting step overs and shit.

 

He's arguably one of the best in the world at what he's good at - but he's very limited in the other aspects required of a modern centre midfielder. We get the defensive aspect from all of our current midfielders working in tandem, but we also get assists and goals from them too (not as many as I'd like but still). It could be argued that we'd get more out of Bruno/Tonali further up the pitch if we had one specific player to do that defensive role but I feel like we'd lose that tribal, hunt in packs attitude they have if it was all left to one player.

[The Fish 9231]

4 minutes ago, Dazzler said:

 

No need to turn him into a player with flair, but coaching him to carry the ball forward and contribute offensively is not that big an big ask. Especially, if he's that good. No one is expecting step overs and shit.

 

He's arguably one of the best in the world at what he's good at - but he's very limited in the other aspects required of a modern centre midfielder. We get the defensive aspect from all of our current midfielders working in tandem, but we also get assists and goals from them too (not as many as I'd like but still). It could be argued that we'd get more out of Bruno/Tonali further up the pitch if we had one specific player to do that defensive role but I feel like we'd lose that tribal, hunt in packs attitude they have if it was all left to one player.

 

I don't think he's limited for an 8, certainly not for a 6. And bear in mind these stats include his time at West Ham where he was an out and out DM. 

 

I think if we were to sign a true blue 6, we'd still press high and hunt in packs, I just think it'd free our more creative players (Anderson, Bruno, Tonali, Willock) to operate with a little more license to attack and mean we could better operate with two attacking fullbacks, instead of just Trippier. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by The Fish

[Dr Gloom 20149]

5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

I don't think he's limited for an 8, certainly not for a 6. And bear in mind these stats include his time at West Ham where he was an out and out DM. 

 

I think if we were to sign a true blue 6, we'd still press high and hunt in packs, I just think it'd free our more creative players (Anderson, Bruno, Tonali, Willock) to operate with a little more license to attack and mean we could better operate with two attacking fullbacks, instead of just Trippier. 

is Tonali creative? Seems more of a hustle and bustle type. I’m still not sure how you would describe him but he seems more like Joelinton to me. Plays some nice neat passes but tends to keep it simple and his vision to play it forwards seems nothing like Bruno on the evidence so far.  

[The Fish 9231]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

is Tonali creative? Seems more of a hustle and bustle type. I’m still not sure how you would describe him but he seems more like Joelinton to me. Plays some nice neat passes but tends to keep it simple and his vision to play it forwards seems nothing like Bruno on the evidence so far.  

 

He definitely was at Milan. I think he's getting used to the way we play, but he's definitely got the eye for a pass. Sometimes he looks for the high risk/high reward pass and it doesn't come off.

[wykikitoon 17053]

He has shown glimpses but like someone said the others aren't on his wavelength yet. I think if Anderson was a little more switched on yesterday Tonali had played some great balls.

[aimaad22 3611]

46 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

is Tonali creative? Seems more of a hustle and bustle type. I’m still not sure how you would describe him but he seems more like Joelinton to me. Plays some nice neat passes but tends to keep it simple and his vision to play it forwards seems nothing like Bruno on the evidence so far.  

 

You get the feeling that he's got it in him though. I've no idea why some of Twitter seems to be slagging him off because I thought he was our best player in that poor first half. 

 

As Fish said some of his forward looking passes in the second half didnt come off, but you could see the ideas are there. Some of the link up one touch play was lovely too, I think he's going to be class. 

[The Fish 9231]

1 minute ago, aimaad22 said:

 

You get the feeling that he's got it in him though. I've no idea why some of Twitter seems to be slagging him off because I thought he was our best player in that poor first half. 

 

As Fish said some of his forward looking passes in the second half didnt come off, but you could see the ideas are there. Some of the link up one touch play was lovely too, I think he's going to be class. 

I think Twitter are expecting any player to hit the ground running as a lot of ours have.  Same thing happened with Gordon.

 

Thing with Tonali is that he hasn't played a string of games with our first choice midfield available and a settled forward line in front. And we haven't played a run a games with a settled team against weaker opponents. Tonali is a quality player and I'm sure Howe and our team will get more from him than we've seen so far.

[aimaad22 3611]

49 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

He definitely was at Milan. I think he's getting used to the way we play, but he's definitely got the eye for a pass. Sometimes he looks for the high risk/high reward pass and it doesn't come off.

 

Has he got a long range shot on him? Can remember one or two decent strikes for Milan but not many off the top of my head.  

 

I think that's why one of the areas the midfield can mix it up a little. Bruno, Longy and Anderson are too predictable in that respect as they seem very reluctant to take a shot on from outside the box even when there seems to be space. 

 

Bruno was doing it in his first season, he's got it in him but its been switched off for some reason. 

[The Fish 9231]

1 minute ago, aimaad22 said:

 

Has he got a long range shot on him? Can remember one or two decent strikes for Milan but not many off the top of my head.  

 

I think that's why one of the areas the midfield can mix it up a little. Bruno, Longy and Anderson are too predictable in that respect as they seem very reluctant to take a shot on from outside the box even when there seems to be space. 

 

Bruno was doing it in his first season, he's got it in him but its been switched off for some reason. 

 

I think that's by design, our boys taking shots from outside the box tend to come when the result is pretty secure. 

[Dr Gloom 20149]

 

24 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I think Twitter are expecting any player to hit the ground running as a lot of ours have.  Same thing happened with Gordon.

 

Thing with Tonali is that he hasn't played a string of games with our first choice midfield available and a settled forward line in front. And we haven't played a run a games with a settled team against weaker opponents. Tonali is a quality player and I'm sure Howe and our team will get more from him than we've seen so far.

 

i'm not writing him off by any means - that would be daft - gordon being a perfect example of how it takes certain players a while to get used to playing in howe's system. 

 

i'm just not yet sure exactly what kind of player he is

 

on first impressions he seems to have more in common with joelinton than with bruno. i dunno, i might be wrong. i love his workrate and he looks good in the press. some of his one touch pass and move stuff looks neat and tidy too. he just doesn't (yet) look like the bloke who is going to play those defence-splitting passes. 

34 minutes ago, aimaad22 said:

 

You get the feeling that he's got it in him though. I've no idea why some of Twitter seems to be slagging him off because I thought he was our best player in that poor first half. 

 

As Fish said some of his forward looking passes in the second half didnt come off, but you could see the ideas are there. Some of the link up one touch play was lovely too, I think he's going to be class. 

 

yeah, i defo think there's a good player there. the way the milan fans seem to love him bodes well. i guess expectations are just higher when a player arrives with that price tag. people expet them to hit the ground running, but paqueta is a good example. he was slow starter at west ham but looks the part now. 

[Dr Gloom 20149]

28 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

I think that's by design, our boys taking shots from outside the box tend to come when the result is pretty secure. 

 

100%. it gets frustrating to watch at times but its definitely being coached into them - to work the ball until a high value opportunity opens up instead of taking a pot shot from outside the box.

 

trippier is particularly guilty of this. he often wants to wait for a good crossing or passing opportunity but sometimes i just want him to have a shot at goal from distance. his free kicks are so good, he must have it in him to chip in with goals from open play. 

[Christmas Tree 4003]

Could very well be a bit homesick and struggling to settle as well. I think he oozes class on the ball and will hopefully develop into a great player for us.

 

Going to be a tough choice picking our best midfield when they are all fit.

[PaddockLad 14905]

If we’re talking about Tonali and where he fits in then for me it’s one of two things…

 

A. it’s part of a move to a more possession based game rather than ultra high press/energy game we currently play. You’re not going to dominate games doing what we’re doing all the time and you’re not going to have long term success playing that way either as I think Klopp might be finding out possibly for the second time (depending how you look at it) . This is obviously complete speculation and it does suggest we’d be missing what Klopp (and to an even greater extent Mourinho at a few clubs although he played a defensive type game) achieved at Dortmund and Liverpool ie sudden and great success which was ultimately unsustainable. Don’t know but it’s difficult to see how an (obviously great ) player properly fits in to our game as we sit here at this stage of our development.

 

OR
 

B. He’s Bruno’s replacement 

 

 

My moneys on B tbh

[Dougle 2898]

22 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

If we’re talking about Tonali and where he fits in then for me it’s one of two things…

 

A. it’s part of a move to a more possession based game rather than ultra high press/energy game we currently play. You’re not going to dominate games doing what we’re doing all the time and you’re not going to have long term success playing that way either as I think Klopp might be finding out possibly for the second time (depending how you look at it) . This is obviously complete speculation and it does suggest we’d be missing what Klopp (and to an even greater extent Mourinho at a few clubs although he played a defensive type game) achieved at Dortmund and Liverpool ie sudden and great success which was ultimately unsustainable. Don’t know but it’s difficult to see how an (obviously great ) player properly fits in to our game as we sit here at this stage of our development.

 

OR
 

B. He’s Bruno’s replacement 

 

 

My moneys on B tbh

 

 

Do you think the new Bruno contract is ultimately to ensure when/if he goes he goes for a fucking massive amount?

[Holden McGroin 5059]

I think Bruno will be off if we dont get champions league football next season. 

[PaddockLad 14905]

32 minutes ago, Dougle said:

 

 

Do you think the new Bruno contract is ultimately to ensure when/if he goes he goes for a fucking massive amount?

 

I think if someone comes up with his apparent  buy out price (and with the money the Saudis are chucking at other clubs who’s to say there won’t be more than one club who can put up 50-75 mill up front?) then we’d be daft not to. We’re sticking scrupulously to FFP. This is the game we’re in 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Holden McGroin 5059]

Amanda is doing this by the book. She is too nice. We should just buy the best players in the world then take the £250k FFP fine on the chin.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Holden McGroin

[Dr Gloom 20149]

I’d be gutted if we sold Bruno. He is potentially one of our greatest ever midfielders 

[RobinRobin 9469]

On 09/10/2023 at 05:59, ohhh_yeah said:

 

This was class move by Areola.

 

 

Didn't want to listen to that blowing bubbles crap yet again 

[ohhh_yeah 2795]

11 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

If we’re talking Tonali and where he fits in then for me it’s one of two things…

 

OR
 

B. He’s Bruno’s replacement 

 

 

My moneys on B tbh

 

 

 

[ohhh_yeah 2795]

 

He is his long term partner!

 

[Chaser 1073]

Id love to think that this squad have years playing together and hopefully by having a settled and well drilled unit, we can have more success this and next season (in that I mean qualifying for the Champions League yearly) but great sides lose big players and then go on and continue their success. 

 

If Bruno decides he wants to go to Spain next summer or the one after, then we've got to have the personnel in place to take over that position. Until then, we enjoy the football.