Rayvin

If Chelsea turn up and treat us like "It's only Noocarrsul" then we'll win 3-0 IMO. That said, we played Potter already this season so I think it's really unlikely that they do take that approach. Cagey game, a goal either way.

And the Tories let it happen.

How are we still in an era where there's no live footage of certain matches ffs

Yeah and the concept of 'work' is something he might be struggling with too.

What?? He's far more deserving of a call up than fucking Fred. Gutted for him.

Just watching the highlights - is it just me or is their keeper really quite shit? I feel like he should have been able to get a lot closer to a couple of those efforts, or was positioned wrong to start with. 4 goals from 4 shots on target for us.

I still, even now, can't quite believe we're just casually turning up and beating teams 4-1 away from home. Even if we weren't our best, that's still fucking impressive.

I can't, I wish I could Another reason to be fucking pissed about everything today.

I still don't even know what you stand for, that's my point. You've barely committed to anything. And I mean for instance, you said you strongly disagree with my view on what happens after people go to prison... I didn't express one. What is it that you think my view is? And more than that, what is your alternative view and why? That's what I mean about this conversation mate, it's not been a debate of views from my side, it's been me putting views forward and getting smoke and mirrors back.

He's suspended isn't he?

Would be nice to keep a clean sheet here to keep that side of things going. Based on how we've been lately, no reason we can't get a couple. Southampton traditionally have felt like a bit of a difficult ground for us though, maybe because they're so damn far away, I don't know. No animosity to them as a club though, just hope we get another 3 points. 0-2 or 1-2

I can't be bothered mate, you win, you can be the smart and kind one.

I'm ok really I have covid at the moment and being bed ridden has given me some pent up energy clearly.

Right I forgot the last bit, pain on my conscience etc - I mean you've just decided there that my view comes down to 'let people out of prison early'. I didn't say anything on that whatsoever. At this point you have no idea what my views on that are, you've just assumed them into the same virtue signalling caricature.

How patronising is this comment, seriously. I have not attempted to position myself as "smarter" or "kinder" than anyone - I was talking to you as an equal. I am who I am, I don't give the slightest fuck whether you think you are smarter or kinder than me - you might well be for all I know - but I don't care. The fact that you mention it suggests that you do care and that might be something you want to reflect on - but for my part, I am not a virtue signalling caricature. What I have told you is literally what I believe. If that shames you somehow, that's not my problem - don't throw that shit at me. Fucking hell. I love the "old enough to realise" bit which is another not so subtle put down. I dunno how old you are mate but I'm 37 and have talked to people the world over - I love talking to people. I wouldn't have gotten far with that if I wasn't aware that people have different views. The issue we have had in this conversation isn't me rejecting your views because you've barely put any forward. I'm left with this vague sense that you must disagree with what I'm saying but you've not committed to anything clearly so I really don't know. I am actually left to assume at this point that you do disagree, but you don't have an argument as to why. More 'gut feel' stuff I guess. To take this to conclusion, I will always consider seriously any well evidenced opinion from any side of the political spectrum. Hell, you could convince me of the benefits of Tory austerity if you could actually make a credible and well reasoned case for it. What I will not consider is speculative emotional rhetoric that brands people as irredeemable animals simply because this is an easier outlook than learning to accept that we all have the capacity for evil in us. The issue isn't that I'm "closed minded", it's that you don't have an argument.

How did I know this response was coming Seems to be the standard in situations like this. It's nothing to do with this place mate, I just enjoy a good discussion - you can get plenty of them on here. If you're instead saying that I shouldn't take you seriously, then duly noted.

The only time I would ever advocate for a physically harmful action is if it's the only way to prevent someone hurting others. So for instance, I could get on board with Putin being assassinated since we appear to have no other mechanism to get rid of him, and he's killing thousands. That said though, if he stood down and was tried for war crimes, I wouldn't want him executed. I don't remember posting that, but it's possible because it's consistent with my internal view on the matter. And beyond that, honestly, I don't think you've seen shit from me calling for violence against other people. Unless being very angry and calling people out for what they are constitutes violence. I think you're scrambling around now because you've no argument on this other than "criminals are evil". I've tried to engage you earnestly in this and I regret it, you're not even making arguments.

And Hitler, yes. Understanding how these people come to be, what drives them and why they have such rampant disregard for those around them would go a long way to better equipping society to prevent them getting into the positions of power that they do. Doesn't mean they aren't human. It is especially important, in fact, that we regard them as human. Even Jordan Peterson made this point man. Did you really think you were going to 'gotcha' me with this for fuck's sake. This is a deeply held principle that I have spent many hours thinking on and challenging myself with.

I don't have Twitter but if I did I'd be throwing in the towel now. Is there a viable alternative in any real sense though?

I'm not saying they have to forgive, goalpost shifter, I'm saying they have to accept that these people are human and stop running away from why these things happen because it's "easier" to just rage and hate and see them as less than human. That attitude is what causes this in the first place frankly. Only the left actually tries to do anything meaningful in tackling crime because only the left tries to understand it. And I say left generously here, what I mean is the centre, the left, and really anyone with any actual common sense. Notably excludes significant swathes of the right who prefer to respond emotionally and assume criminals are "evil" and "animals", words which remove any responsibility from society for doing anything to prevent it. Further case in point - domestic violence. Have mentioned this before but nonetheless - I worked with a counselling charity to help them with their sustainability, and the CEO told me that in the fight against domestic violence, they'd save more women if money was being spent on helping the men who were violent. Unfortunately, she went on, there is no political will to do so because society can't stomach the idea of helping such people. The consequence of that backwards social attitude, is more women suffering domestic violence. This isn't the thread for this anyway and I apologise to everyone for de-railing it, but my original point is that Putin conscripting criminals to go and die in Ukraine outrages me no less than any of the others he's forcing to go and die for his right wing, authoritarian, populist bullshit. Those people are human and he's treating them as playthings in the same way he's treating everyone else.

I always refer people to Brendan Cox on this. His wife (Jo Cox, MP) was murdered by a right wing terrorist - the right itself in this instance would have to throw their hands up and say "well, he was just evil, nothing anyone could have done". Cox on the other hand publicly forgave the man and called for greater understanding into the root causes of social division. He held true to his principles because he understood that the man who killed his wife had been turned into a vehicle for murder by right wing propaganda focused on hate. To call that man an animal and write him off is to take our eye off the real reason for her death. The politics and media of the right wing - and we have to stand in defiance of their hatred and insecurity day in and day out to prevent society collapsing around us.

I would rephrase this. The Liberal left is brave enough to recognise that people who do these things are human beings, and that the darkness of thought which compels such actions could with the right set of circumstances, occur in any of us. Therefore we have to be able to understand them as we have to be able to understand ourselves - and doing so is the only way to make anything better. The hellfire and brimstone right instead hides from the truth and prefers to call these people animals and other dehumanising terms because it wishes to believe that there is just something innately evil in them, that this cannot be explained or reasoned with, and that they should be written off. They are people. As such we are compelled to understand them if we want to deal with the causes if them committing crimes. Otherwise we're doomed to simply live in a world were crime is a relentless evil that we cannot deal with other than shooting it dead at every opportunity. Which is indeed the world the right thinks it lives in.

You understand what conscripted means right? They're not being afforded an opportunity here, they're being forced to do it because in his eyes, as former criminals, they're lesser human beings. So they are in fact paying an additional debt to society.

Aye my bad, I saw that and somehow was under the impression that she was administrating the procedure rather actually being the complainant.

I don't think we should underestimate how powerful that rhetoric was mind you, Russia definitely did shut up and go away. We've heard nothing about them since...