Kitman

Great post. Frankly I couldn't give a toss about whether the Halls and Shepherds were good/bad (they were certainly ugly), it's ancient history now. It's here and now that matters and God knows where we're going under the present lot, but I'm not picking we're bound for glory.

"The nucleus is there, there might be one or two positions we might need to review which is (manager) Chris Hughton's job. If he is going to ask for a forward or a creative midfielder then we will have to go out there and look for them." Llambias http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...ike-Ashley.html? We'll be lucky if we sign one new player by the looks of it. Talk of wholesale changes to the squad is pie in the sky, although I agree it's badly needed.

Barton's had some bad luck with injuries (or we've had some bad luck with Barton). To be fair, Steven Carr showed that the club is woefully inept at rehabilitating players after serious injury. I hope he isn't rushed back too soon and is allowed the time needed to fully recover. Not sure if we should sell him. He's been a terrible signing and is seriously overpaid if tales of him being on 60k a week are true. However he's one of the few CM we have that might actually be able to cut it in the prem if he regained his Man City form.

Just you, they were sick of you. Oh all right then, me as well.

Pithy

I agree with the first part, but I honestly can't see any sort of large scale purchase happening before next season. No doubt there will be some movement on the market, as there should theoretically be a larger pool of players to pick from in the off-season. In particular I think Ashley will be directing Hughton to have a good look over the players in the Portsmouth, Burnley and Hull sides as they'll look to snap some of their more talented players up on the cheap as those clubs are forced to adjust their wage bill appropriately (though relative to us they've probably already got modest wage bills). The idea of buying promising young players and bringing them through the system is theoretically a good one where-by somehow hopefully the players will form an attachment to the club so they won't be forced to shell out the larger wages to attract out of towners. What it doesn't allow for is the current quality of the first team, which will need some reshaping. Nicky Butt's wages should cover a pretty decent player I would imagine for starters, depending how much the actual transfer costs (as I speak no doubt Ashley will have Hughton looking over players on the final years of their contracts). The other problem with bringing through youth players is that the club really does have a pretty horrible record of doing so. The best player to come out of the Newcastle area of late is Michael Carrick and he was nicked from under our noses by a London side. Seldom do we see the best performers in our youth/reserve sides given a reasonable chance to prove themselves in the top side - look at Kazenga Lualua, he's been showing promise for some time and it looked like he might crack it into the first team on occassion, now he's slipped back off the radar and has been loaned out. I don't think Ashley will put his hand in his pocket full stop, I was just suggesting this wasn't necessarily a good thing. Interesting point about Portsmouth, Burnley, Hull - I guess the question would be whether those talented players will command a bigger fee and wages somewhere else - the answer almost certainly being yes. I just can't see Ashley risking more than a few mill on transfer fees at best and there will no doubt be an overall wage cap on wages meaning we'll have to shift the higher paid players before we can sign anyone. imo Leazes is dead right when he says there is no ambition to achieve anything more than profitable survival. The youth strategy is a not just a good idea it's common sense and maybe our best chance of competing in the future. I'm not convinced there's any intention of hanging on to our best young players though, more of a plan to sell them off at a big profit when they start getting decent offers. That's not a bad thing because if we've no ambition to compete and won't pay these youngsters competitive wages, they'll piss off anyway the minute they get a better offer, much like Waddle, Gascoigne etc (another of Leazes points). Hopefully it won't come to that. However as you say, we're not seeing a conveyor belt of talent coming through to the first team yet - the suspicion remains this is something we're still a bit shit at, so it might not be a problem anyway. Sorry to be so gloomy, I'm just struggling to see the upside in the current situation. I do think with a handful of canny purchases offseason we could transform our prospects, but I don't think it will happen for a variety of reasons.

I can't say I agree with that necessarily. I think the lesson of last season was don't keep your wallet shut when you obviously need to spend on some quality. Most decent players won't come to any non-London club unless they're paid massive wages or have a reasonable prospect of success (and for top players it usually means both). They don't need imo to be 'interested in playing for the club' they just need to be professional and have pride in their performances. The club was so badly managed last season, with players being allowed to take the piss, losing motivation and becoming demoralised or disinterested by all accounts. It's difficult to be objective about the players when the club was in such a mess and they spent a large part of the season under the "direction" of JFK. I don't subscribe totally to the 'dead wood out' theory. There were some bad and washed up players in there, no doubt, (Smith and Geremi for instance) but it's interesting that some of the poorer value players have left us to prosper elsewhere at smaller clubs. Look at Carr (now at Birmingham City) - apparently rushed back too soon from injury time and again - or Duff (Fulham). Or N'Zogbia (Wigan). A managerial merry-go-round, inept medical staff, inept management, inept directors, a club at war. It doesn't help you perform I expect, especially when your confidence is low. By contrast we''ve had a bit of stability this season in a poor league. Perhaps we need to gamble less in future on older players, sick notes and nutters but we'll get nowhere next season (if promoted) if we don't invest in buying in some premiership standard talent. We need to be prepared to invest wisely but I think it's also about having a professional set up, a decent manager who can spend cannily, a stable club and a good support. We don't need to spunk ridiculous amounts of cash on risky signings but we do need to start raising the standard to prem levels. Starting with a goal scorer for instance. If we don't offer decent wages and show some ambition to lure good players, they won't come. With the current journeymen and CH in charge I think we'll struggle. And if I was on Tyneside I'd think twice about going to see that week in week out. Shepherd understood above all the fans need something to look forward to and cheer.

I wouldn't mind gradual improvement of the squad with a sensible amount of investment. The problem is I can foresee no spending at all on new players next year (and I've little confidence we could/find attract high calibre players on a shoestring). I just can't see either our midfield or attack cutting it in the prem. Or Hughton for that matter. Failure to invest sufficiently in Jan 09 was one of the main reasons we got relegated, along with self inflicted internal issues and inept managerial appointments. I doubt they've learnt those lessons really, staying in the prem (if promoted) with our squad is going to be much harder than getting back up there imo. Longer term I think Ashley's retail store mentality, the need to balance the books and the incompetent (non football) management team will hold us back unless and until they all sod off or the prem league implodes financially. I don't feel the club will move forward on the pitch during his tenure; he doesn't offer is any chance or hope of success, I agree with Leazes on that.

Bravo Parky! Must have been difficult typing that with your toes, damn that straightjacket!

but the Halls and Shepherd ran the club for more than a year. Will he ever put us in the Champions League and attract top players to the club ? I very much doubt it. Ashley is plainly not going to invest significantly in the club; imo the only thing that will give us more of a level playing field is if the PL cash cow collapses, so gates are the most important source of income again i.e. the smaller clubs can't afford to spend big anymore on the promise of future Sky TV money. I doubt we'll ever catch up with the top clubs under Ashley, unless we get a visionary manager who can build the club up from a low base.

indeed you did. You are right too, most of what you say is right. NO is boring, they do let the kids ruin it. I've made a few posts lately too and when I am looking around now I realise how many people are on there that know fuck all about the football club. Most of those that do are boring and dull, although there are a few good posters. I look back and I will admit that the bulk of my posts were aimed at a handful of other certain posters, there are 2 reasons for that. One is that they were the only subject that weren't boring and the other is those certain posters were posting such shit that it attracted a response. Following my replies I was always told I was abusive etc etc, but the thing is, I was only posting comments that were roundly disagreed with and in the end led to me being banned. In the end though, only one person was proved conclusively correct. Me. So they now have the same old people posting the same old shite. I see macbeth has disappeared. How many times did I tell him he was talking shite ? He even said once that he said the Halls and Shepherd had ran the club in the early days very well, until I turned up an article he wrote for the mag in 1998 where he slated them to death, just before we were about to play in the FA Cup Final for the first time in 24 years. I have never understood the need to ban people permanently anyway. I think saying someone is talking bollocks [when they are] is part of a good message board. This is football, not a knitting circle at the local parish. I agree with you anyway Stevie. As things stand, if I got back on, I would in the end point out those who talk shit just like before and be banned again. It needs a good facelift I would say, its a bit of a shame when they have thousands of posts and 99% of them are absolute drivel. I used to post on NO regularly, but it was the rabid anti-Keegan stance that did for me. I just wasn't interested in sharing a MB with people who couldn't appreciate what Keegan's done as a player and manager, whether they're bairns, posers or whatever.

Wipe your arse on a Spurs shirt? Nice and white.....

Ashley should be hailed as a visionary, putting the club on a sound financial footing ahead of the bubble bursting and many PL clubs going into administration. That's what comical Dekka would have us believe anyway...... I don't see anything wrong with us reining in overspending on useless imports as it happens. Having a pool of committed "homegrown" players with one or two skilful foreign fancy dans seems to me a good way forward. My issue has always been that the club is pretty hopeless growing its own players, one or two excepted. You get the impression if we bring a good player through, it's by accident rather than design and our scouting/youth policy traditionally has been pretty non existent in the past. I'm yet to see any evidence of a new Arsenal rising from the North East like a footballing Tyrannosaurus Rex.....

That's very generous pud. What's mrs pud cooking and what's your address? NE1 4ST Pie & Chips ( very reasonable) With or without gravy?

I take the view this sort of thing is bound to happen sooner or later, so you've just reduced the odds of it happening on a night out when it would be seriously embarrassing. Or something

Lembit Opek, take note. Career politician. Which should have ruled him out for standing for parliament on grounds of insanity. That and going out with the weather girl with the huge head, Sian wotsit

Lembit Opek, take note. Career politician. Which should have ruled him out for standing for parliament on grounds of insanity.

Could you trust him if he said he did? True I'm just wondering if we should now change the name to "No he won't"

I only ever remember Foot as a wurzel gummidge looky-likey, whose delivery and intonation was so bad, his sentences were almost nonsensical. I recall hearing him speak on the telly and he made 'the' and 'and' the most important words in his sentences. he looked and sounded completely mad, although my Dad said he was a very clever bloke (he also referred to him as a 'communist traitor' mind you!). His disastrous image in his latter days may well be responsible for the rise of Blair and Cameron, media savvy soundbite politicians more concerned with their poll ratings than policy. Doesn't matter what you say, as long as it sounds good and you don't look as mad as a box of frogs.

Is there any indication Ashley still wants to sell up?

As much as I admire your positivity CT, all Ashley et al have done this season is show they can run a championship football club pretty well. But it's not much to be grateful for considering we were a PL club when they took over. It would be nice to think we're on an upward arc, but given they made such a mess of things last time around, I think I'll wait and see.

I don't think Caulkin's article adds anything to the debate actually.

No, but theres so many baa'ing sheep in this thread its like a stoning from Monty Python. We all know the History that started under Fat Fred (for leazes), looked canny for a bit with Mort and then blew up having rushed in Keegan. And we all know the heap of mistakes made since. But, unlike some on here I dont hold Ashley solely responsible for everything thats gone wrong or dismiss every statement that is made simply because of the past. Ashley tried to copy Tottenham, tried to put a structure in place and was very badly advised by poorly qualified people (Llambias). But the past is the past and this season is going in the right direction (opposite to what most on here were predicting early doors). Hughton has been backed and the GOAL this year was to get promoted. That looks as though it may happen and we will see what comes next. But constantly moaning on does fuck all for the club. At times its like a fucking Ian Paisley convention. Life moves on. I think people are entitled to criticise when LLambias tries to spin the past to make the regime look good. The main reason we're moving forward now is because he took the club a long way backwards. I refuse to be grateful for that.

I think you're onto something here. There ought to be a tramp's rate card for this sort of thing: Front doors of SD shop - 5 Inside the shop - 10 Over the shop merchandise (excl toon tops) - 20 In Ashley's office - 100 Front doors of Ashley's house - 150 In Ashley's petrol tank - 500 On Ashley's food - 750 In Ashley's face - 1,000

You have a warning from the StopSpam Organization I feel dirty