ewerk 27300 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 In order to do that though you can't be making the losses that they are. They've a lot of players on big contracts that no other club wants. The only hope for them is to survive until those contracts are run down and then rebuild sensibly. In the mean time they're still servicing a £70m loan at 7.5%+Libor. That alone will eat into their cash flow. Short washing his hands of the whole thing would be a real possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9382 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, ewerk said: They don't have anyone really worth selling, not on the wages they're on. Their stadium is only really of value if it is being used for football and obviously the only club who will use it is SAFC. It could be knocked down for housing (I assume, I'm not familiar with the area) but that would see it sold for a reasonably low price. They basically have no assets of significant value when compared to their debt. Their debt is manageable if they get into the top flight. Once they're back in the land of milk and honey, that debt can be eaten away at. That's why I can't understand failing to spend money now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27300 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) It may be manageable in the top flight but only Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal have higher levels of debt and obviously it's much easier to manage for clubs of that size. It still wouldn't help solve all their problems without a drastic cut in costs. Edited September 12, 2017 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4992 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Fish said: Their debt is manageable if they get into the top flight. Once they're back in the land of milk and honey, that debt can be eaten away at. That's why I can't understand failing to spend money now. You keep assuming he has the money though. He very legitimately may not. And as ewerk says he's been throwing money at then for years. They owe Short alone something like £100m don't they? Why would he think it'll go any better this time. I read he made his money from asset stripping. If that's true he'll know exactly what to do here, and he's likely heartless enough to do it. There's a thread on rtg now about how much impact falling attendances will have on all of this. It'll become a bigger deal as parachute payments reduce, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9382 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, Rayvin said: You keep assuming he has the money though. He very legitimately may not. And as ewerk says he's been throwing money at then for years. They owe Short alone something like £100m don't they? Why would he think it'll go any better this time. I read he made his money from asset stripping. If that's true he'll know exactly what to do here, and he's likely heartless enough to do it. There's a thread on rtg now about how much impact falling attendances will have on all of this. It'll become a bigger deal as parachute payments reduce, that's for sure. He's got a billion quid, and while some of it may be stuck in shares, he can still access it. It's not like their relegation was a shock, so he had plenty of time to sort that out. Say your mate owes you £3k, and you can either get £1k back now, or loan him another £1k so he can get to work and repay you the full £4k over the next few years, what would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4992 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, The Fish said: He's got a billion quid, and while some of it may be stuck in shares, he can still access it. It's not like their relegation was a shock, so he had plenty of time to sort that out. Say your mate owes you £3k, and you can either get £1k back now, or loan him another £1k so he can get to work and repay you the full £4k over the next few years, what would you do? From a financial point of view I'd take the £1k now. Given that I could invest that plus the £1k I'm not giving him, and earn more from them. From a sentimental point of view I'd loan him the extra money. Which of the two approaches do you think made Short a billionaire? And again, why do you think liquidating his shares to help Sunderland is something he would want to do? He is an investor. He won't be sitting on hundreds of millions in his bank account, it would be a waste of his money. Instead, almost all of it will be tied up in other investments. Why should he sell those for Sunderland? I would honestly be surprised if he has more than a few million stashed away in cash for a rainy day. And again, why give that to Sunderland? Edited September 12, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Fish said: He's got a billion quid, and while some of it may be stuck in shares, he can still access it. It's not like their relegation was a shock, so he had plenty of time to sort that out. Say your mate owes you £3k, and you can either get £1k back now, or loan him another £1k so he can get to work and repay you the full £4k over the next few years, what would you do? Have him killed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) Aye, banks tend not to trust people that will say if they could borrow a bit more and have more time they'll get the bank all their money back. Sunderland aren't looking like a good bet for a bank to recoup their money from, if a bank could get some part of what they are owed they may well take it rather than gambling as to what they'd get from administration proceedings. It can also get a bit ropey if certain lenders can recoup what they are owed just before administration proceedings begin, as it's seen as unfair on the other lenders. Banks will try but I just mean that's another reason some may come in and take as much as they can rather than wait for Short to come swooping in with the full amount. Short has been pumping fucking fortunes into them since Quinn sold him down the river with his bs about how good Sunderland are, I think he's getting close to the end of giving a fuck if he hasn't hit that point already. He's clearly not going to pump the money in in the hope they'll go back up, he may well just let it fall into administration sell the club for cheap and then look to arbitrate with the administrators how much he can get for what he's owed (that's if he has set his payments up as loans like Ashley). Edited September 12, 2017 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9382 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rayvin said: From a financial point of view I'd take the £1k now. Given that I could invest that plus the £1k I'm not giving him, and earn more from them. From a sentimental point of view I'd loan him the extra money. Which of the two approaches do you think made Short a billionaire? And again, why do you think liquidating his shares to help Sunderland is something he would want to do? He is an investor. He won't be sitting on hundreds of millions in his bank account, it would be a waste of his money. Instead, almost all of it will be tied up in other investments. Why should he sell those for Sunderland? I would honestly be surprised if he has more than a few million stashed away in cash for a rainy day. And again, why give that to Sunderland? Because if he doesn't bail Sunderland out that investment is a calamity. If he does bail them out now, he could recoup money on that investment, if he doesn't he absolutely won't. Any potential buyer is going to pay pennies on the pound, aren't they? If he pumps in enough to keep them afloat they'll pay more. Surely? A League 1 club, in administration, with no saleable assets, is worth fuck all. A Championship club, operating on a shoestring, is worth a lot more than that. 5 minutes ago, Tom said: Have him killed Rock and roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4992 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 minute ago, The Fish said: Because if he doesn't bail Sunderland out that investment is a calamity. If he does bail them out now, he could recoup money on that investment, if he doesn't he absolutely won't. Any potential buyer is going to pay pennies on the pound, aren't they? If he pumps in enough to keep them afloat they'll pay more. Surely? A League 1 club, in administration, with no saleable assets, is worth fuck all. A Championship club, operating on a shoestring, is worth a lot more than that. Rock and roll. Yep that's true. That fact alone will be staying his hand but I assure you he won't jeopardise other, profitable, investments to save it. Especially as there are no guarantees about any expenditure having the desired effect. Best case scenario now is that they get stripped right back and spend a few years getting things under control again. But if they run out of money and the bank starts calling, he isn't going to save them iyam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 (edited) You're reaching a point where he may have to pump more money in to have them in that stable Championship club on a shoestring position mentioned than the difference in market value between a club in that position and a one in League One that's undergoing administration. It's also worth noting he'd probably have to keep owning them for another 2 years to steer them into a position like that (due to the contracts and other things mentioned by ewerk), at that point it's also wasting time capital and tying up funds in an attempt to recoup extra losses rather than just cutting them and moving on. Edited September 12, 2017 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 9382 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Yep that's true. That fact alone will be staying his hand but I assure you he won't jeopardise other, profitable, investments to save it. Especially as there are no guarantees about any expenditure having the desired effect. Best case scenario now is that they get stripped right back and spend a few years getting things under control again. But if they run out of money and the bank starts calling, he isn't going to save them iyam. I get what you're saying about sacrificing good investments to try and fix a bad one, and perhaps it's my attitude to risk, but I'd rather turn around a bad investment to make it an ok investment and then offload it, rather than write off that money all together. To me, that money isn't lost to Short yet. If he wanted out, he should have dumped Premier League Sunderland at a bargain price of £150m, say. Because, as it stands, they're not worth that and without investment they're only going to reduce in value. Best case scenario for who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Had a bit of time to kill so had a browse on there to see if they are on suicide watch yet, this thread man https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/sunderland-agree-fee-for-mcnair-and-donald-love-sky-sources.1261703/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 If they get beat tonight they could be bottom then they'll be queuing at their new bridge to jump off . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 FTM Short has bombed the makem woman's team out of their training ground.They're now going to train at Benton. Ellis FTM ( fucking the makems ) Short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13921 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 A lass at graft's daughter plays for Sunderland women and goes to Uni in Newcastle. She'll save a canny bit in petrol tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27300 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Another tough night in the pub league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdansmith 2338 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Is that the same Murphy the mackems slagged off when he played for us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlythMag 0 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 ahahahahahahahahaha had to be Murphy, sit back and watch the meltdown, the club that keeps on giving they are a fucking mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4992 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Fucking hell... what a shambles they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 28456 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just laughing about it at work when I noticed one of the poor dears sitting down the bottom end, (like club, like fan). Almost felt sorry for him/them. 'Almost'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 26,026.That must be the joint attendance for last Saturday's game against Sheffield Utd and tonight's game against Forest.That's attendance as in attendees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 28456 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Anyway, anyone got any tips for any football fan websites? I feel like a roam somewhere..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 It's a 7 mile drive to a newsagent that sells the makem echo but it'll be well worth it tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said: Anyway, anyone got any tips for any football fan websites? I feel like a roam somewhere..... Howayman Howmanheyman, divvint be posting stuff that winnit open owerseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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