ewerk 26360 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 A week after what happened in London and this is the Sun's front page today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26360 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 What a fucking debacle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 ''After all, some 15 million people in Germany come from an immigration background, making up 18 percent of the population. But the fact remains that in the German parliament they are represented by just 11 politicians, making up less than 2 percent of the Bundestag.'' http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/no-obama-for-deutschland-ethnic-minorities-still-overlooked-in-german-politics-a-646733.html Sorry state of affairs. I don't think the UK needs to take any lectures from Europe reg immigration and representation. 41 in the UK Parliament. I hope you don't get me wrong and start to think I'm picking on you as I seem to only post in reply to you nowadays. I just don't find enough time to post more often these days and just concentrate on things I think are really worthy for me to contribute. I'd actually be happy to drink a (German) beer with you next time I am in Hamburg...But unfortunately I think that your numbers are totally wrong and even the wrong numbers are incorrectly interpretated.First of all, it's not just 11 members of parliament in Germany with a immigagration background. The article from the Spiegel is misleading (at best or simply fake news).From the current members of parilament it's just 11 members with a turkish background. In total the number of members of parliament with an immigration backgroud was 35 (in 2013). The difference to the UK seem to be rather marginally tbh (especially if out think about the commonwealth background).http://www.migazin.de/2013/09/24/bundestag-abgeordnete-mit-migrationshintergrund/https://www.welt.de/politik/wahl/bundestagswahl/gallery120462622/Tuerkischstaemmige-Abgeordnete-im-Bundestag.htmlAnd I agree that there is a lack of representation of turkish people in the German parliament. But then again of those approx. 15000000 people living in German with a Turksih background, less than 1000000 are eliglible to vote because of their nationalitiy.Add to it that you have to take in account that represenation iin a democracy has a lot to do with (a majority) people deciding who or what to vote for. Therefore I neither do find it strange that very few members of ethnic minorities do stand for elections and thatethnic monorities are inadequartely representated in parliament.First of all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3980 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I'd add that assuming that those of Turkish backgrounds would/should vote for "Turkish" candidates just because of their ethnicity is ID politics at its worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26360 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 By all means continue your one on one marking job on Parky. Someone has to call him on his nonsense and I've got shit to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26360 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 A week after what happened in London and this is the Sun's front page today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14055 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Laugh, cry, once again the line is desperately fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Cracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26360 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 No trade talks until the separation deal is agreed. So every chance that two years could pass without a trade deal being agreed. Also, doesn't the threat of not sharing security information harm us as well as the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I think you're spot on, highly likely that we're going to Brexit without a deal in place now IMO. Hard to imagine May getting a £50bn payment to the EU past the Daily Mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26360 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I guess they feel that a trading relationship is more important to us than them. Just who are they going to sell their prosecco to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Our logic in this has been ridiculous throughout. I don't even think May is making the best of a bad hand - she should have just come out and said 'look, I'll do this, but this is what you're signing up to'. I can't quite decide if I think Cameron or May has been the bigger disaster here. Cameron still has it I think but over time, I suspect May will be the more damaging one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19826 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 £50bn is fuck all in the scheme of things. it's about what we'd pay in annual contributions and spread over three years it's less than one per cent of gdp. get it paid if that's what it takes to secure a good deal on trade. the future is what is important, they can't go into these discussions all guns blazing with ridiculous daily mail like demands and just expect the 27 other countries to suck it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4222 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 £50bn is fuck all in the scheme of things. it's about what we'd pay in annual contributions and spread over three years it's less than one per cent of gdp. get it paid if that's what it takes to secure a good deal on trade. the future is what is important, they can't go into these discussions all guns blazing with ridiculous daily mail like demands and just expect the 27 other countries to suck it up. But they have to or they lose the PR battle and the 52% will notice that May and co are the global political elite etc and so on who they think have ruined their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 But they have to or they lose the PR battle and the 52% will notice that May and co are the global political elite etc and so on who they think have ruined their lives. Exactly. The Mail is going to be all over them at any sign of weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It says everything about how fucked up this all is that compromise is seen as a sign of weakness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4222 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It says everything about how fucked up this all is that compromise is seen as a sign of weakness Thats how the campaign was run though so its now what people expect. I do wonder if this might all be taken as a warning by the party leaders of the future. Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) Personally think the 50b is a bit cheeky. We've more or less crept up to 2nd largest net contributors over the last decade. And we don't get anything like the French get for their fat pig stroking farmers (the CAP). We should agree to pay something but 50b? No. Edited March 31, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Aye but we offered £3bn We're a long way apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Nick Clegg needs deporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Aye but we offered £3bn We're a long way apart. We don't want to pay for anymore Shia LeBeef art projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30414 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Thats how the campaign was run though so its now what people expect. I do wonder if this might all be taken as a warning by the party leaders of the future. Probably not. I don't really understand how this narrative has been allowed to develop. I guess it's just cowardice of the part of the likes of May who are too scared to stand up to the papers despite the lack of any credible opposition. They should just be honest and say these knackers, Farage, Johnson, Gove and co promised you a load of shit that isn't possible so this is the compromise that's best for the country. Because there really isn't an alternative anyway other than no fucking deal. You can tell there isn't an alternative because none of the leavers have an alternative. Not even the party that has been going for a few decades whose raison d'etre was leaving the EU. I don't think people are stupid for believing lies, but they're treated as such when the lies are reinforced. Which appears to be happening. May didn't help thing be giving loads of the liars jobs in government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 The shire Tories want to roll back the social contract (lot of it is reinforced by EU law) and they don't care what deal comes from the EU. They will be sipping da Pimms in the garden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19826 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) £50bn is fuck all. it's a perfectly reasonable exit deal. If we want a good trade deal, we'll have to pay up. divorces are messy and expensive, we voted for this and we have to pay what we owe - we took responsibility for membership, budgetary commitments etc within the 7 year framework that the EU operates in. pay up and the negotiations start on a good foot. what works in domestic politics isn't going to work across the channel. having a row with them isn't a sign that we are doing a good job - if anything it's asking for punishment. why the fuck would they give us anything close to what we want if we don't pay what we owe before entering talks? Edited March 31, 2017 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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