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3 hours ago, Renton said:

This is an interesting view on Afghanistan from the  Biden perspective. Taken at face value, I still think the choice is cowardlym morally reprehensible and ultimately counter-productive like, but anyway.

 

 

 

 

As always seems to be the way these days, I agree with you. From the perspective of both the Afghanis but also our own soldiers who have effectively wasted time, blood and lives for this capitulation.

 

I don't know what the options on the table were but it seems clear that we stopped trying at a political level to advance the situation, some years back.

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Gove is the first to move. Off to the Ministry of Sound apparently.

But surely.....    

Roses are red Violets are blue Please vote for Labour Unless you're a Jew

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On 23/08/2021 at 10:36, NJS said:

I don't think sixth form lefties are the worst for "workshops" - I know from experience that city firms are fucking experts in that kind of torture.

 

 

The Civil Service could give anyone a run for their money too. 

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In a private conversation in 2010 with Holbrooke, the book says, Biden argued that America does not have an obligation to Afghans who trusted it: “Fuck that, we don’t have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it,”

 

We're just following in Biden's lead.

 

This whole thing has been a complete shambles. America looks even more pathetic at the moment than it did under Trump. Granted, Trump did a lot of the damage there for Biden to start with, but at his first real international test, Biden has taken a step down rather than up. This whole fiasco does such a disservice to everyone who worked and died for Afghanistan for 20 fucking years.

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4 hours ago, Gemmill said:

This is a giant fuck-up, but the idea that Biden's America is worse than Trump's is absolute nonsense.

 

Not exactly what I meant although I can see how it needed further explanation.

 

Trump devastated America's World standing and rather than redeeming it, with Afghanistan, Biden appears to have reinforced the perception of weakness that Trump created.

 

That's all I meant. America looks more feeble now than at any time in living memory, IMO.

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1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

Not exactly what I meant although I can see how it needed further explanation.

 

Trump devastated America's World standing and rather than redeeming it, with Afghanistan, Biden appears to have reinforced the perception of weakness that Trump created.

 

That's all I meant. America looks more feeble now than at any time in living memory, IMO.

 

It certainly looks incredibly insular now and the American dream is dead. Isolationism is not a great look, as we are finding out. As for Biden, he's clearly a better president than Trump. But Jesus Christ, talk about low bars. 

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10 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

I'll be honest I think  Biden has done the right thing. What's the alternative, stay there forever?.

They and we should never have been there in the first place

Don’t withdraw everything overnight? 

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30 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Don’t withdraw everything overnight? 

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

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13 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

They could have tapered it way more than they have 

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57 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

They rolled over because they never supported the US invasion in the first place, they were getting paid to enlist so they did

They Aghans at the top were completely corrupt and siphoning money out.

The whole war has been nothing but a moneymaking excercise from the start

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I would find it hard to believe that most if any levels of Afghan government and military had much more forewarning about this than we did.

 

No we don't stay there forever, yes we never should have gone in, but to call all Afghani people who joined the democratic side "in it for the money or corrupt" is just poor taste IMO.

 

Viewed differently, what we have done is spent 20 years rooting all all the pro-democracy elements that the Taliban might have struggled to deal with themselves, and handed them over on a plate.

 

What exactly would have stopped US forces from continuing to occupy Kabul in full until they had evacuated everyone they needed to? Like fuck would the Taliban have launched an out and out attack on a full US contingent of soldiers.

 

It's because Biden doesn't give a fuck about the lives lost. Not sure I can be convinced otherwise. America first, no matter the cost.

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9 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:

They didn't though did they? It's been a gradual withdrawal since last year. There was always going to be a tipping point where the Taliban decided to try their luck again. 
 

The bigger question is how the fuck did the Afghan army/police roll over without a fight? 

They literally abandoned Bagram overnight and didn’t inform the Afghans until two hours after they’d fucked off. Meanwhile the Taliban were already capturing parts of the country.
 

There’s no doubt the Afghans felt isolated after that. They’d have fought a lot harder knowing that as a minimum they’d got US air support to back them up.

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